300lbs athlete thought he could beat Urijah Faber in a fight.

[MotorCityCobra]

WTF dude? That guy "Ray" was a well trained fighter. I think he went Pro but didn't do that well. Masvidal was talking about this in his podcast interview with Helwani, how he saw Ray later at a gym and Ray was a nice guy. Ray was Kimbo's protege, which is clear that he's a trained fighter and not just a big, athletic guy....which is what's being argued here. Size certainly does matter.

Being a 300 lb athlete does help, no doubt. But it also depends on where the fight is. In an elevator, Faber's fucked. But in an open space, Faber has a much higher chance. This is where darting in and out fast for repeated EYE JABS, comes into play. Once the vision is gone, it's KO time and up to death if Faber wanted that.

Ray trained after for their rematch, but initially was just a brawler.

Someone legitimately athletic weighing 240 LBS will kill pretty much anyone 100 LBS lighter than them in a real fighting situation. Of course some big pussy will get killed fighting a small badass, but that is not the point.

 

[SpamuraiSensei]

Lmao being in "brawls" means nothing, except he might already have brain damage.

People's ignorance is amazing.

Funny you mention ignorance, while being ignorant.

 

[SpamuraiSensei]

Brawls??? Lol 1000 brawls at the bar don’t equate to fighting guys like Jose Aldo

You think Jose is untouchable because he fights professionally?

He's not a god.

 

[MileHigher]

I thought there was footage but its just urijah bragging here. Sorry to burst your bubble homie, but no manlet is gonna take out a normal sized human being

1. He wasn’t bragging at all.
2. How much do you think Faber weighs?
3. He would beat the shit out of 99.9 percent of normal sized people.

 

[SpamuraiSensei]

No. Kimbo Slice is a well trained Boxer at the Amateur level and with fight experience, before he went on TUF. He's way above and beyond the average musclehead that just lifts weights at a gym.



This is bullshit if you're going to bring weapons into it. If I sneak up on Mike Tyson, I can probably crack him in the head with a tire iron from behind and knock him the fuck out.....or I can mace him first to blind him and then crack him.....WTF does this even prove? Shit, bring in guns too why don't you?

Obviously we are talking about a hand to hand fight, even with no rules. Knocking someone the fuck out with strikes, works the same in streets as it does in the cage.....and who's going to be better at this? A trained fighter at the highest level or some fuck just lifting weights at a fitness gym?

The fighter obviously, but you guys are speaking like it's impossible for some athletic guy with a 200lb weight advantage to be able to handle a trained fighter as small as DJ, and that's simply not the case.

 

[98bird]

Ray trained after for their rematch, but initially was just a brawler.

Why was he touted as Kimbo's protege? I teach Muay Thai and I've seen my fair share of brawlers. Watching Ray's 1st fight vs. Masvidal, he clearly has training and experience fighting. It's not very good, but it's still a trained fighter.

Someone legitimately athletic weighing 240 LBS will kill pretty much anyone 100 LBS lighter than them in a real fighting situation. Of course some big pussy will get killed fighting a small badass, but that is not the point.

I've beaten someone who was exactly 100 lbs more than me and he placed 2nd in the State's HS wrestling (losing in the final). He trains like everyday doing crossfit type exercises at this ghetto ass gym that's my secondary gym. He's a freakin' specimen for someone in perfect shape. Not just a top heavy bodybuilder. In like an 8 minute round, he only hit me once (maybe 2x) and I landed at least 30 hits. I didn't drop him but he couldn't move b/c his lead leg got kicked like 20x. Although his 1 shot felt like it dislocated my jaw. He quit. Because the next 2 minutes would have been headshots for the KO. I didn't see him for like 5 days after that b/c his leg was jacked. And once again, I'm a nobody compared to damn, Faber. Faber should beat me very easily, even in standup.

 

[kflo]

You think Jose is untouchable because he fights professionally?

He's not a god.

What’s going to happen to Jose?

 

[SoberAwakening]

I'm a manlet and I got manlet pants on...deal with it.

 

[MM808]

Its quite simple really. Size matters the most if both people are similarly trained fighters.

For example, a 145 lb black belt would wreck any 215 lb white belt no matter the type of fight they have.

While a 215 lb black belt would beat a 145 lb black belt most of the time.

 

[98bird]

The fighter obviously, but you guys are speaking like it's impossible for some athletic guy with a 200lb weight advantage to be able to handle a trained fighter as small as DJ, and that's simply not the case.

NO, I never said nor implied that. Obviously I meant in general, otherwise it would only take ONE case to disprove an all or nothing argument, which I never made.

 

[Bones245n4847]

Didn't uriah faber once say he could beat Brock Lesnar before Lesnar first fought in the UFC? This guy exaggerates everything so if he said 300 pound athlete it was probably some 5'5 250 pound mexican dude who played jv football in high school thinking he's an athlete.

 

[98bird]

If a guy is big and in shape and game to fight then someone like Gonzalez simply has no chance. And unless the big guy has been cursed with a terrible glass jaw then Gonzalez is not going to have the power to KO him either. We are talking about the real extremes of being small here, a tiny little man. He is 5 ft 3 and too small for 115lbs, which is pretty much his walk around weight.

Here is Paddy Barnes (who is bigger than Gonzalez) with Anthony Joshua

Now do you think that if Joshua wasn't a trained fighter himself, but say a rugby or football player, that this suddenly changes everything and means that Barnes could beat him up? Like I said, sometimes people take this 'training and skill always beats size' argument too far.

I never said it was impossible. I even stated that size does matter. Size matters a lot. I'm just saying that I would bet on the Fighter, IN GENERAL. Was it you who brought up Gonzales? You were the one who made it seem that Gonzales had no chance, so you're at the other extreme yet complaining about my alleged extreme argument (which I didn't make).

If I had to fight someone that big like in the picture (untrained fighter), it would be leg kicks and move over & over with jabs & move until his leg is wrecked....and/or wait to counter when he throws headshots, it's very possible. There are plenty of dudes 6'3-6'5" that I had to spar, and they're trained up to being my equal. Although I'm bigger than this little guy, but it still ain't fun.

 

[MotorCityCobra]

Why was he touted as Kimbo's protege? I teach Muay Thai and I've seen my fair share of brawlers. Watching Ray's 1st fight vs. Masvidal, he clearly has training and experience fighting. It's not very good, but it's still a trained fighter.



I've beaten someone who was exactly 100 lbs more than me and he placed 2nd in the State's HS wrestling (losing in the final). He trains like everyday doing crossfit type exercises at this ghetto ass gym that's my secondary gym. He's a freakin' specimen for someone in perfect shape. Not just a top heavy bodybuilder. In like an 8 minute round, he only hit me once (maybe 2x) and I landed at least 30 hits. I didn't drop him but he couldn't move b/c his lead leg got kicked like 20x. Although his 1 shot felt like it dislocated my jaw. He quit. Because the next 2 minutes would have been headshots for the KO. I didn't see him for like 5 days after that b/c his leg was jacked. And once again, I'm a nobody compared to damn, Faber. Faber should beat me very easily, even in standup.

You beat him, or you beat him in stand-up sparring and he is slow with 16 oz gloves trying to pick shots? Do you think you could beat that guy in an actual fight?

I coached an athlete in high school who ended up playing in the NFL, I would roll with him and tap him even though he outweighed me by 60 LBS of lean muscle. Once a fight broke out I was trying to restrain him and it was basically impossible as the guy was much bigger and stronger. In a real fighting situation I doubt I could do anything to him, although in sparring I could beat him easily due to lack of intensity.

There is a reason Derrick Lewis would knockout Michael Bisping. It has nothing at all to do with skill. 240 LBS athletic people are few and far between...the ones that are out there would annihilate anyone 130 LBS regardless of skill.

 

[MotorCityCobra]

If a guy is big and in shape and game to fight then someone like Gonzalez simply has no chance. And unless the big guy has been cursed with a terrible glass jaw then Gonzalez is not going to have the power to KO him either. We are talking about the real extremes of being small here, a tiny little man. He is 5 ft 3 and too small for 115lbs, which is pretty much his walk around weight.

Here is Paddy Barnes (who is bigger than Gonzalez) with Anthony Joshua

Now do you think that if Joshua wasn't a trained fighter himself, but say a rugby or football player, that this suddenly changes everything and means that Barnes could beat him up? Like I said, sometimes people take this 'training and skill always beats size' argument too far.

This is essentially what I'm getting at.

Many NFL players are bigger and physically stronger then Joshua. Guys like DJ are like the guy above (or smaller!).

 

[MMouse]

Shaq vs mosley

 

[98bird]

You beat him, or you beat him in stand-up sparring and he is slow with 16 oz gloves trying to pick shots? Do you think you could beat that guy in an actual fight?

That 260 lb guy was not slow, he has Boxing training. And I'm also slowed down with 16oz gloves. I'd be much faster with 4oz MMA or bare knuckles. His wrestling would be a big problem for me even with my own training in wrestling & BJJ. But in a street fight, I would eye strikes while moving. I'm already much better than him in Boxing. I leg kicked him a lot that day because that was the easiest & safest strategy.

I coached an athlete in high school who ended up playing in the NFL, I would roll with him and tap him even though he outweighed me by 60 LBS of lean muscle. Once a fight broke out I was trying to restrain him and it was basically impossible as the guy was much bigger and stronger. In a real fighting situation I doubt I could do anything to him, although in sparring I could beat him easily due to lack of intensity.

If you can tap him but couldn't restrain him to the point of saying it was "basically impossible" when a fight broke out? Something is way off here. Most of the time, grappling sparring is near to full out intensity, esp. vs. someone with 60 lbs on you.

Are you a grappler only or do you train striking and fight full MMA also? How about hard sparring for full knockouts? I've seen plenty of grapplers-only up to BJJ black belts (that tries out some MMA) that can't take MEDIUM shots to the face while trying to take me down. I do get taken down about 70/30 though b/c I'm not throwing full power for KO's. And I'm wearing MMA 7oz or even Boxing gloves. 4oz gloves and I would be breaking noses, KO's and shit. But it's because I train both and know how to defend TD's vs. BJJ's who don't know how to address punches.

There is a reason Derrick Lewis would knockout Michael Bisping. It has nothing at all to do with skill. 240 LBS athletic people are few and far between...the ones that are out there would annihilate anyone 130 LBS regardless of skill.

This is bullshit b/c now you're going to the extreme of the other side...and you don't seem to understand what happens when you get hit in the face repeatedly by someone who's much, much better...and they're not stopping.

 

[MotorCityCobra]

That 260 lb guy was not slow, he has Boxing training. And I'm also slowed down with 16oz gloves. I'd be much faster with 4oz MMA or bare knuckles. His wrestling would be a big problem for me even with my own training in wrestling & BJJ. But in a street fight, I would eye strikes while moving. I'm already much better than him in Boxing. I leg kicked him a lot that day because that was the easiest & safest strategy.



If you can tap him but couldn't restrain him to the point of saying it was "basically impossible" when a fight broke out? Something is way off here. Most of the time, grappling sparring is near to full out intensity, esp. vs. someone with 60 lbs on you.

Are you a grappler only or do you train striking and fight full MMA also? How about hard sparring for full knockouts? I've seen plenty of grapplers-only up to BJJ black belts (that tries out some MMA) that can't take MEDIUM shots to the face while trying to take me down. I do get taken down about 70/30 though b/c I'm not throwing full power for KO's. And I'm wearing MMA 7oz or even Boxing gloves. 4oz gloves and I would be breaking noses, KO's and shit. But it's because I train both and know how to defend TD's vs. BJJ's who don't know how to address punches.



This is bullshit b/c now you're going to the extreme of the other side...and you don't seem to understand what happens when you get hit in the face repeatedly by someone who's much, much better...and they're not stopping.

It isn't bullshit and I respect your opinion as well.

I could tap him because on ground he isn't striking and is essentially holding position as a pure novice. Previously I would think similarly, as my understanding has gotten better I realize with striking allowed and adrenaline, it is likely he would cave my head in before I could set up any submissions (I could also catch him as well).

Something doesn't mesh with little guys killing big guys sparring and playing around all the time, but almost never when shit gets real.

I boxed as a youngster (3 amateur fights, trained with Jorge Martinez a local featherweight pro), and transitioned to wrestling/bjj in high school and ended up training all around So-Cal from 2003-2007. I've sparred with several solid fighters, and done my share of beating people who were twice my size. Organized and real fighting are not the same thing at all.

The stronger, more aggressive, more violent person wins nearly all street fights... much different than organized competition. At least in my opinion/experience/observation.

 

[daniel san]

What some don't seem to understand is that a BW doesnt weigh 135 lbs, on fight day most of them are usually at 155 lbs. When not in camp and not as drained, probably around 165-175 lbs. So a pro athlete weighing 165-175 would lose to an untrained 200+ guy? Too many shit on the smaller guys, they are mini sized killers that would beat up the vast majority of the world's population.

 

[Thaijitsu612]

Funny you mention ignorance, while being ignorant.

No, being ignorant is not knowing what happens when a "street fighter" fights even a mid tier fighter. Then thinking a guy who got in brawls at Hooters is prepared to beat a former world champ.

 

[chubbman]

Gimme a year and I wall and stall anyone 135 and under.

Chubbman via UD.