3 main principles of Karate timing broken down

[Jimmy Jazz]

 

[CFGroup]

Sansen no San all day...Why let an aggressor dictate the the time the confrontation goes physical...Of course that's for more than beer muscle glorified school yard scuffling.

I wish they kept their hands up in this demo like Go Ju Ryu would. I understand that the chambered fist is representative of having your hand near your weapon, but in this modern era it could be revised for the present.

I loved(and can't wait to get back to) the drills where I initiate Uke putting his hands up or going for grip.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Sansen no San all day...Why let an aggressor dictate the the time the confrontation goes physical...Of course that's for more than beer muscle glorified school yard scuffling.

I wish they kept their hands up in this demo like Go Ju Ryu would. I understand that the chambered fist is representative of having your hand near your weapon, but in this modern era it could be revised for the present.

I loved(and can't wait to get back to) the drills where I initiate Uke putting his hands up or going for grip.

yeah I generally agree. I guess there is something to be said for realism but also keeping the art intact. I did muay thai and still used the same timing principles I used in karate when sparring. Mostly sen no sen as it was easier for me to see the tells, than to block and counter or move and counter.

 

[ARIZE]

Curious about something. In TKD ITF, we have also another movement that is:
Blocking and striking simultaneously. It would be more like a tai no sen, but the guy says that there is no blocking there...
Any explanation on that from karate guys?
It's a move that is often use in matches, deflecting a kick for example with a hand, while you simultaneously kick him.
And of course we also have them for demos, like the way it's done on the video.
A classic one been: blocking/deflecting a straight punch to the outside, while stepping in with a hook.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Curious about something. In TKD ITF, we have also another movement that is:
Blocking and striking simultaneously. It would be more like a tai no sen, but the guy says that there is no blocking there...
Any explanation on that from karate guys?
It's a move that is often use in matches, deflecting a kick for example with a hand, while you simultaneously kick him.
And of course we also have them for demos, like the way it's done on the video.
A classic one been: blocking/deflecting a straight punch to the outside, while stepping in with a hook.

sounds like something inbetween go no sen and ssn no sen. I'm not sure what it would be called.

 

[shinkyoku]

Curious about something. In TKD ITF, we have also another movement that is:
Blocking and striking simultaneously. It would be more like a tai no sen, but the guy says that there is no blocking there...
Any explanation on that from karate guys?
It's a move that is often use in matches, deflecting a kick for example with a hand, while you simultaneously kick him.
And of course we also have them for demos, like the way it's done on the video.
A classic one been: blocking/deflecting a straight punch to the outside, while stepping in with a hook.

I cant for the... remember the correct trad terminology (it tranlsates into "weaving" that much I remember), but in karate you do have simultaneous attack/parry (block with one hand, hit with the other).
You also have blocks that change into attacks after they have completed the block (block with one hand then seamlessly flow into a punch with the same hand).
But those are more traditional okinawan karate things. What the guy in the vid is saying is more mainland japanese karate (which is heavily influenced by kendo, with one "weapon").

 

[ARIZE]

You also have blocks that change into attacks after they have completed the block

We have those too. We even have some of them with the leg: You block a front kick with a low side kick, and then without pouting your foot down you do a second side kick to the body.
Now, don't ask me if those technics are applicable in a fight/sparring situation, but they are a good way to train reflexes with proper technique. And understanding the logic behind the different types of action against an attack, opens your mind to different techniques, strategies etc...(even if the MT way is the only way to go: Heavy block and heavy attack)

 

[Hotora86]

Curious about something. In TKD ITF, we have also another movement that is:
Blocking and striking simultaneously. It would be more like a tai no sen, but the guy says that there is no blocking there...
Any explanation on that from karate guys?
It's a move that is often use in matches, deflecting a kick for example with a hand, while you simultaneously kick him.
And of course we also have them for demos, like the way it's done on the video.
A classic one been: blocking/deflecting a straight punch to the outside, while stepping in with a hook.

Plenty of that being done. Here's some drills.

 

[Hotora86]

I cant for the... remember the correct trad terminology (it tranlsates into "weaving" that much I remember), but in karate you do have simultaneous attack/parry (block with one hand, hit with the other).
You also have blocks that change into attacks after they have completed the block (block with one hand then seamlessly flow into a punch with the same hand).
But those are more traditional okinawan karate things. What the guy in the vid is saying is more mainland japanese karate (which is heavily influenced by kendo, with one "weapon").

Blocks can hurt too!

 

[ARIZE]

Thanks guys for the clarifications...

 

[spacetime]

The Karate stances for striking were never intended as a blueprint for actual applied combat. It was a very simplified form of delivering a strike. Unfortunately, this was not passed on correctly, since free sparring adopted those very stances, as well as in instructionals such as this one.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

The Karate stances for striking were never intended as a blueprint for actual applied combat. It was a very simplified form of delivering a strike. Unfortunately, this was not passed on correctly, since free sparring adopted those very stances, as well as in instructionals such as this one.

where did you hear that?

 

[spacetime]

where did you hear that?

As you have rightly pointed out any assailant wouldn't attach with a punch in a formal stance and I have already made a thread about the issues with this kind of practice earlier this month (it can be found here: http://www.karateforums.com/my-thoughts-on-ippon-kumite-vt50270.html)

In terms of applying stances in bunkai and I can only speak for myself (obviously

), I think the use of stances in Karate as a whole is greatly misunderstood. I refer you to two quotes. First from from Gichin Funakoshi's nijukun (20 precepts): - "Kamae wa shoshinsha ni ato wa shizentai" (fixed positions are for beginners. Later, one moves naturally) and secondly from Genwa Nakasone on his understanding of the above precept: - "Karate has many stances; it also has none.


http://www.karateforums.com/where-did-the-karate-stances-for-punching-originate-from-vt50314.html

 

[Kframe]

It was not long ago that karate and take your dough were laughed at and ridiculed the moment a thread was made about them here. Now I see threads with them popping up regularly and very little hate incoming. Karate is still air punching and form dancing so nothing different there.. Shit Most karate I have seen does not even do real bunkai beyond the basic striking blockings. Especially offerings like Tang Soo do..

 

[CFGroup]

Curious about something. In TKD ITF, we have also another movement that is:
Blocking and striking simultaneously. It would be more like a tai no sen, but the guy says that there is no blocking there...
Any explanation on that from karate guys?
It's a move that is often use in matches, deflecting a kick for example with a hand, while you simultaneously kick him.
And of course we also have them for demos, like the way it's done on the video.
A classic one been: blocking/deflecting a straight punch to the outside, while stepping in with a hook.

I was taught that any block is a strike and vice versa. In application for what you're talking about the mechanics of deflection of your lead hand orthodox stance away from your body starts you hip rotation counter clockwise which transitions into a right rear leg round house. That's the seamless body mechanics principles.

So let's say I'm in orthodox stance I throw a straight left, as in chaining kicks, my next fluid movement could be a spin right hook off of the clockwise hip rotation from the straight left. The same could be done if I was deflecting a left jab with my forward left hand. The low back kick to the floating rib moves me out of range of the incoming straight right with seamless momentum.

I think its Go No Sen since you are blocking(evading) and then striking. It's a little hard to take away the principle from that clip at an advanced level because Uke is only throwing one strike. From my experience working with 4 or 5 continuous attacks first scripted, then random, from slow to fast develops the subconscious response speed needed to start reading peoples movements and throw techniques. In a different thread I talked about being able to focus on center mass and read shoulder and hip movement to read what attacks were coming to time leg kicks and catch MT based kickboxing training partners with their weight on the forward leg. All(most) powerful KO movement starts in the bodies core so reading shoulder hip movement can be used to build defensive and offensive responses in line with what that video is explaining.

Sry for the rambling....I've been all cerebral for a while without being able to train...Trying to keep the noodle sharp...This week I got my hip surgery date for July 27th! I hope to be training these concepts with the combo's I continued to train slowly again by Oct and back on the mat breakfalling next June....

 

[ARIZE]

In TKD ITF, they have dozens different techniques against the same attack... For the one i described, you can use a hook, or a knife strike to the neck (karate chop) for example. And of course there are follow ups. You don't just strike once. Since you stepped in to throw the hook, you can follow with an elbow, or a knee, or you can go for a trip etc... So depending on what you want to do, strike while blocking, strike after a block, evade and strike + the follow ups, you have tons of different ways to deal with an attack. But i prefer to learn one or two ways, and be good at it, than try to train 100 different combos to a punch.

The response to a single attack is called one step. If you add a second attack from your opponent is called two step etc...

I agree that they help with reading your opponents movements, but i personally think that light sparring is even better for that.

Anyway, good luck with your surgery.