15 rounds vs. 12 rounds

kensei

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HI All:

For the boxing experts here, how significant was it when boxing went from 15 rounds to 12 rounds? Are there any modern fighters who you think would have benefited significantly from a 15 round fight vs. a 12 rounder? Comments are appreciated. Thanks!
 
well, I wasn't around at the time, but I think fighters like Pacquiao (in his prime) would have benefited a lot, as the extra three rounds really test chin, heart and conditioning. Salido would probably benefit immensely too (though he's borderline shot at this point). I think most Thai fighters would thrive in 15 rounders, since their conditioning is generally top notch.
 
The Mancini-Kim tragedy had a say in it as did network television and their wishes. The networks weren't willing to invest as much in boxing after the Mancini-Kim fight, amongst some other things (public soured, rating plummeted, sponsorships left, blah, blah, blah...I've mentioed this all a hundred times before), and one of the ways they could do that if the fights were 12 rounds instead of 15. It fit perfectly into an one hour time slot, which also allowed them to save a lot of money in production costs as they were no longer required (or had the time to air) to come of with those long promotional video pieces they used to come up with more frequently back in the late 70's, early 80's as they tried to introduce who the fighters were to the viewers. Most of the time in the mid/late 80's it was "we now take you to so-and-so vs so-and-so..." where the two fighters were already in the ring and literally seconds away from starting the fight.
 
Most of the truly great fighters from this era would have arguably been more dominant with 15 rounds. Both Pacquiao and Mayweather had exceptional stamina. I imagine both Floyd and Manny might have a few more stoppages on his record over 15 rounds. When Hopkins was first starting to dominate MW in the 90s, he always used to say that he was a fighter made for 15 rounds, and I could definitely see more stoppages on his record over that distance.

Honestly, I'd prefer if championship fights were still 15 rounds. I think it places more weight on skill and gives thinking fighters a bigger advantage as the true quality of each fighter has more time to show through over the longer distance. Sharkey covered the major reason why they cut down to 12 rounds.
 
I don't need to see people die and I think it is a myth most of the time that those three rounds would make the final decision decisive. You want to make it interesting, how about fewer but longer rounds. I think that would make this pretty interesting.
 
I don't need to see people die and I think it is a myth most of the time that those three rounds would make the final decision decisive. You want to make it interesting, how about fewer but longer rounds. I think that would make this pretty interesting.

I'm not sure the reduction in rounds made that much of a difference as far as fatalities are concerned. Just looking at http://ejmas.com/jcs/velazquez/Muerte2011_pdf_Sep_2011.pdf and the velocity of deaths in the ring really didn't change after Mancini/Kim. It's dips a little bit in the mid 80's but picks right back up in the 90's. I wonder if the dip can be attributed to what @Sharkey was talking about earlier; perhaps that time period is being under-reported. Or it could just be a fluke.

Interesting tidbit, according to that document there were 11 deaths in 2009 which is on the higher-than-average side.
 
I remember 15-rounders well and it was really, truly "the championship rounds" when you had two top fighters in their weight class well-matched in a title bout. Big difference and a true test of heart and cardio/training.
 
Most of the truly great fighters from this era would have arguably been more dominant with 15 rounds. Both Pacquiao and Mayweather had exceptional stamina. I imagine both Floyd and Manny might have a few more stoppages on his record over 15 rounds. When Hopkins was first starting to dominate MW in the 90s, he always used to say that he was a fighter made for 15 rounds, and I could definitely see more stoppages on his record over that distance.

Honestly, I'd prefer if championship fights were still 15 rounds. I think it places more weight on skill and gives thinking fighters a bigger advantage as the true quality of each fighter has more time to show through over the longer distance. Sharkey covered the major reason why they cut down to 12 rounds.

I agree with this. Of his major fights, I could see Floyd getting stoppages against Shane, and Cotto probably Zab , maybe DLH as well. I think Pac would have gotten stoppages in the Shane and Larios and can you imagine what he would have done to Margarito's eye with another three? Actually, I think Pac would have won the first Morales fight too with another three round (by Dec, not stoppage), but that's a personal opinion. Calzaghe's run would only have looked more dominant with 15 rounders, given his exceptional stamina. Wlad was always very well conditioned for a HW, so I don't see his reign being affected too much, though he brings up the interesting question of what happens if his holding continues for another three rounds? the extra three could bring up legitimate concerns of DQs. I feel like Rigo would have gotten Donaire out of there with another three, though that's really the only fight of his that stands out.
 
I wouldn't have minded Hagler-Leonard going 15 rounds.
 
I wasn't around either but seems that those 3 extra rounds would be a pure test of conditioning as opposed to actual skill
 
Chavez Jr wouldve put Sergio away had it been 15rds.
Mayweather would've stopped Cotto, Zab, and Guerrero if it was 15. Maybe Mosley as well.

Even fights like Thurman-Garcia would've been different possibly.

Bring back 15 rds
 
Chavez Jr wouldve put Sergio away had it been 15rds.
Mayweather would've stopped Cotto, Zab, and Guerrero if it was 15. Maybe Mosley as well.

Even fights like Thurman-Garcia would've been different possibly.

Bring back 15 rds
You realise you're saying bring back brain damage and mental health problems?
 
Dejulez if one boxer cannot beat another in x12 3-minute rounds of boxing then another 3 is not going to make a logical difference for the win.

If it is purely for your satisfaction that they are guaranteed to be in unnecessary pain is a bit...fucked up
 
I think it's probably true that the number of people who box either as an amateur or professional etc has risen since the 80s. So there's more sparring going on, more fights, and so there's more deaths.
You think more people box now? Wrong. And you think that's why 12 rounds isn't sensible? Also wrong. People get hurt because they play billy big balls and try to fight on when they're scrambled. They need to give up.
 
I'm not sure the reduction in rounds made that much of a difference as far as fatalities are concerned. Just looking at http://ejmas.com/jcs/velazquez/Muerte2011_pdf_Sep_2011.pdf and the velocity of deaths in the ring really didn't change after Mancini/Kim. It's dips a little bit in the mid 80's but picks right back up in the 90's. I wonder if the dip can be attributed to what @Sharkey was talking about earlier; perhaps that time period is being under-reported. Or it could just be a fluke.

Interesting tidbit, according to that document there were 11 deaths in 2009 which is on the higher-than-average side.

I think it's probably true that the number of people who box either as an amateur or professional etc has risen since the 80s. So there's more sparring going on, more fights, and so there's more deaths.

Meanwhile medical facilities will have improved and that counteracts that effect.

Just going through that link, the number of fights which went further than 12 rounds and ended in deaths from the 30s to 82 is about 7 from what I can see. So that's not a lot compared to the overall number. I bet though if you compared that number to the number of deaths of 15-round caliber fighters there'd been, it would still be a minority but would appear more significant. You'd have to guess that the top level title quality fighters are less likely to be killed boxing, and that going from 15 round fights to 12 probably reduces their likelihood of death a little bit too.
 
You think more people box now? Wrong. And you think that's why 12 rounds isn't sensible? Also wrong. People get hurt because they play billy big balls and try to fight on when they're scrambled. They need to give up.
In 1982 the population of the world was 4.6 billion. Now it's 7.5 billion. Proportionally there might be fewer people boxing, but overall in the total number there will definitely be more people boxing. The only figure that is easy to find is that with BoxRec in 2013 there were 18229 male professional boxers active in the last year, and now there's 22261. But anyway, that's obviously not conclusive, but still, given that the population of the world has increased massively it's pretty obvious to me there'll be more boxers right now. Why do you think otherwise?

And you think that's why 12 rounds isn't sensible? Also wrong.

Lol, where did you get that from what I said? I think 12 rounds is a good idea. Read my post in the context of what was quoted.
 
In 1982 the population of the world was 4.6 billion. Now it's 7.5 billion. Proportionally there might be fewer people boxing, but overall in the total number there will definitely be more people boxing. The only figure that is easy to find is that with BoxRec in 2013 there were 18229 male professional boxers active in the last year, and now there's 22261. But anyway, that's obviously not conclusive, but still, given that the population of the world has increased massively it's pretty obvious to me there'll be more boxers right now. Why do you think otherwise?



Lol, where did you get that from what I said? I think 12 rounds is a good idea. Read my post in the context of what was quoted.
This post makes no sense. We box less rounds for a reason, it's called living longer. Why are you on the lol and saying nothing but there are more people alive today? We know that as a fact so what's the issue?
 
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