Economy 12 Years and $34 Billion Later, Canada's Trans Mountain Pipeline Expansion Is Set To Complete.

I just don't understand being against safe pipes. The oil will be shipped. Either it gets piped out safely, or it gets shipped by more expensive rail which puts the environment and human lives in danger.

This is such a simple matter. I don't understand those on the Left who can't see simple truths.
$$$

it is always about $$$. The BC gov't and remaining native bands fighting just want a bigger share of the revenue and will threaten to stall and scuttle the deal until they get it. Every Province wants a Churchill Falls type deal where Quebec would not allow Newfoundland generated electricity from the Falls to pass through Quebec for sale unless Quebec got a deal giving them the lions share of the profits. Newfoundland has been fighting to undue that deal ever since with Quebec laughing while reaping the profits.

BC wants a similar deal where they would get a bigger share of the profits of any oil crossing their province and make no mistake, if that number was high enough this would get through. BC has no aversion to pipelines as others have shown in this thread.
 
To me it seems there are those who think if this oil isn’t shipped by pipe, not only it, but no other oil to replace it should/will be shipped at all, by anyone, so they oppose their country building safer infrastructure to do something already being done in less safe ways through other countries. Then there are the people who pander to that group, who want to stop any building in THIS country, but will continue to “business as usual” and get their resources elsewhere.

It is of course completely hypocritical, but as long as the visual is that they are standing up against THIS oil, they get the support of the people standing against ANY.


There are really two forces at play here.

The anti corporation, anti globalist forces ...and then the willfully blind and ignorant who serve as their lackeys.

The anti corporate, anti globalists just hate Big Oil. So anything they can do to deny them profits they think is a good thing. Even if it means more oil shipped by Truck and train which is more dangerous and hurts the environment more they don't care. Just don't let those evil oil Co's make greater profits.

their dupes are the willfully blind who they convince this is about the environment to 'give them a cause' to fight for. As i said in the prior point, the oil is going to be extracted and shipped regardless. So it goes the more polluting and dangerous way now but they still keep on fighting to maintain the status quo.
 
Again only in Canada the taxpayers wind up paying for a project that was going to be completely privately funded. Thank you to Hodor for using this pipeline as a political pawn and to Trudeau for cowering away and hoping it would all just blow over when this whole thing started. This is a failure of both BC and Ottawa.

Early on I made the observation that even though Ottawa kept repeating that they will do "everything they can" to solve this crisis, it seems to me that the only thing they know how to do is throwing taxpayer's money at the problem and hope everything fixes itself. Isn't that how they keep Quebec happy?

They're wrong, ofcourse, because this was never a money issue in the first place. No matter who pay for, owns, and operates the pipeline, the same damn obstacles are still there.

What the Executive office needs to do is show some spine and prove that Canada is still a federation with a Federal government at the top, not a lawless fiefdom of warring dukes who can just unilaterally put their own interests over the country's.
 
Trudeau government to buy Trans Mountain pipeline for $4.5B to ensure expansion is built
Canadian public could also incur billions more to construct expansion project with estimated price tag of $7.4B
Kathleen Harris - CBC News | May 29, 2018


Finance Minister Bill Morneau announced today the government is buying the Trans Mountain pipeline for $4.5 billion.

The Liberal government will buy the Trans Mountain pipeline and related infrastructure for $4.5 billion, and could spend billions more to build the controversial expansion.

Finance Minister Bill Morneau announced details of the agreement reached with Kinder Morgan at a news conference with Natural Resources Minister Jim Carr this morning, framing the short-term purchase agreement as financially sound and necessary to ensure a vital piece of energy infrastructure gets built.

"Make no mistake, this is an investment in Canada's future," Morneau said.

Morneau said the project is in the national interest, and proceeding with it will preserve jobs, reassure investors and get resources to world markets. He said he couldn't state exactly what additional costs will be incurred by the Canadian public to build the expansion, but suggested a toll paid by oil companies could offset some costs and that there would be a financial return on the investment.

Kinder Morgan had estimated the cost of building the expansion would be $7.4 billion, but Morneau insisted that the project will not have a fiscal impact, or "hit."

He said the government does not intend to be a long-term owner, and at the appropriate time, the government will work with investors to transfer the project and related assets to a new owner or owners. Investors such as Indigenous groups and pension funds have already expressed interest, he said.

Until then, the project will proceed under the ownership of a Crown corporation. The agreement, which must still be approved by Kinder Morgan's shareholders, is expected to close in August.

A senior government official, speaking on background, said the government hopes to get a new commercial buyer for the pipeline by August, but if that doesn't happen, it will put up the $4.5 billion to purchase the assets.

The government won't publicly discuss construction cost for the expansion because it wants private companies to carry out their own assessments, then bid on the project, the official said.

Conservative Leader Andrew Scheer said today's decision does nothing to advance the project, since the legal questions and obstacles still remain. He said the government has failed to take action to ensure certainty around the expansion by resolving jurisdictional issues.

"This is a very, very sad day for Canada's energy sector. The message that is being sent to the world is that in order to get a big project build in this country, the federal government has to nationalize a huge aspect of it," he said.

NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh called it a "bad deal that will solve nothing." Pushing ahead with the pipeline betrays the government's promise to ease reliance on fossil fuels, he said.

"Climate change leaders don't spend $4.5 billion dollars on pipelines," he said. "We need a government with a vision that takes our future seriously."

The pipeline expansion project has faced intense opposition from the B.C. government, environmental activists and some Indigenous groups.

Carr said the plan does not sacrifice the environment for economic benefits.

"Canadians want both and we can have both," he said.

Kinder Morgan issued a statement that says the deal represents the best way forward for shareholders and Canadians.

"The outcome we have reached represents the best opportunity to complete Trans Mountain Expansion Project and thereby realize the great national economic benefits promised by that project," said chairman and CEO Steve Kean.

"Our Canadian employees and contractors have worked very hard to advance the project to this critical stage, and they will now resume work in executing this important Canadian project."

Green Party Leader Elizabeth May, who pleaded guilty Monday to criminal contempt for protesting the pipeline, tweeted that Kinder Morgan is "laughing all the way to the bank."

She called it a bad public policy decision that future generations will regret.

"Historically, I'm quite certain, this will go down as an epic financial, economic boondoggle that future students of political science will say, 'Why on earth did they do that? That made no sense,'" she said.

Alberta Premier Rachel Notley called it "a major step forward for all Canadians." She believes any efforts to "harass" the project will have less effect with the federal government as the owner, because it will have Crown immunity in legal proceedings.

She said the pipeline remains a commercially viable project that will turn a profit. She conceded that governments could be on the hook if there is a spill, but said spills are becoming less frequent.

"Just like any project, there is risk. In this case, the risk is very low," she said.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau took to Twitter to praise the deal.

"Today, we've taken action to create and protect jobs in Alberta and B.C., and restart construction on the TMX pipeline expansion, a vital project in the national interest," his post says.

Under the arrangement, the government will indemnify a potential buyer for additional costs caused by provincial or municipal attempts to delay or obstruct the expansion. It also promises to underwrite costs if the proponent abandons the project because of an adverse judicial decision, or because it can't be completed by a predetermined date despite "commercially reasonable efforts."

Under either of those scenarios, the government will have the option to re-purchase the pipeline before the expansion is abandoned.

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4681911
 
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Damn, Parliament using Morneau as a punching bag, while Trudeau is watching this on TV.

I feel bad for this guy.

 
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Early on I made the observation that even though Ottawa kept repeating that they will do "everything they can" to solve this crisis, it seems to me that the only thing they know how to do is throwing taxpayer's money at the problem and hope everything fixes itself. Isn't that how they keep Quebec happy?

They're wrong, ofcourse, because this was never a money issue in the first place. No matter who pay for, owns, and operates the pipeline, the same damn obstacles are still there.

What the Executive office needs to do is show some spine and prove that Canada is still a federation with a Federal government at the top, not a lawless fiefdom of warring dukes who can just unilaterally put their own interests over the country's.
Whether the move amounts to throwing money away depends on whether the pipeline, as it presently exists, is worth more or less than $4.5B and whether or not the Feds can operate the pipeline profitably.

If the Feds will be securing the construction site then why not own the product?

What determines which pipes (oil, water, sewage) are best under private or public ownership?

Presumably the Feds will be able to reap the profit of pipeline usage that Kinder Morgan was looking to reap.

But I don't put it past the Feds to give away the completed pipeline to a connected benefactor for a song.
 
Whether the move amounts to throwing money away depends on whether the pipeline, as it presently exists, is worth more or less than $4.5B and whether or not the Feds can operate the pipeline profitably.

If the Feds will be securing the construction site then why not own the product?

What determines which pipes (oil, water, sewage) are best under private or public ownership?

Presumably the Feds will be able to reap the profit of pipeline usage that Kinder Morgan was looking to reap.

But I don't put it past the Feds to give away the completed pipeline to a connected benefactor for a song.

Oh, I didn't say they're throwing away taxpayers money, I said they're throwing money at a political problem and hope it will go away.

My guess is all the bullshit that Kinder Morgan had to deal with would still be there when Ottawa resume the construction in their place, unless Trudeau put his foot down, like how he threatened to withhold money to provinces that refuse to comply with the Federal government's Carbon Tax plan.
 
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Oh, I didn't say they're throwing away taxpayers money, I said they're throwing money at a political problem and hope it will go away.

My guess is all the bullshit that Kinder Morgan had to deal with would still be there when Ottawa resume the construction in their place, unless Trudeau put his foot down, like how he threatened to withhold money unless provinces comply with the Federal government's Carbon Tax plan.
I think Trudeau will be in a better position to put his foot down on behalf of a public project than on behalf of a private project.
 
I think Trudeau will be in a better position to put his foot down on behalf of a public project than on behalf of a private project.
I had a theory since day 1 when Trudeau first got elected and spoke in favour of the pipeline project which surprised many. it is not typically something a Liberal, a Quebecois and particularly a Trudeau would support.

My view was that it was a safe support for him since he knew others would battle it for him and he could look like the good guy. I said then and stand by now that he will never use the full force of his office to push it through and instead will allow it to be derailed while saying they tried and did everything they could.

I just don't believe he truly supports it and will pus it. Time will tell.
 
A great day to be a Canazuelan.

LOL, it's not thaaaat bad yet!

Though it would be amusing if the politicians in Ottawa can't find anyone to buy the pipeline after the construction is done, and somehow manage to lose money operating it themselves like the guys over at the Edmonton Sun predicts.
 
LOL, it's not thaaaat bad yet!

Though it would be amusing if the politicians in Ottawa can't find anyone to buy the pipeline after the construction is done, and somehow manage to lose money operating it themselves like the guys over at the Edmonton Sun predicts.

There is no buyer waiting in the wings, just another baby step towards nationalization.

The mood in the field today was grim as shit.
 
I had a theory since day 1 when Trudeau first got elected and spoke in favour of the pipeline project which surprised many. it is not typically something a Liberal, a Quebecois and particularly a Trudeau would support.

My view was that it was a safe support for him since he knew others would battle it for him and he could look like the good guy. I said then and stand by now that he will never use the full force of his office to push it through and instead will allow it to be derailed while saying they tried and did everything they could.

I just don't believe he truly supports it and will pus it. Time will tell.
I guess Trudeau does look like the good guy to me today. Both he and Notley pledged to buy the project if necessary, and he looks to be the one who is actually following through with the purchase.

I don't even know if I can understand an alternative. Can Trudeau really guarantee to Kinder Morgan that construction will go smoothly without sabotage by protestors anymore than he can guarantee to me that I will not be mugged on my way home tonight?
 
A great day to be a Canazuelan.
Does the existence of the Trans Canada Highway mean that Canada already became Canazuelan long ago? Which national transportation projects constitute Venezuela-style politics and which do not?
 
was really hoping to see the taps shut off to BC for awhile
 
was really hoping to see the taps shut off to BC for awhile

I had that feeling too for a while but the majority of British Columbians are for this project. Horgan is just desperately trying to cling on to power with the votes of the green party and is willing to go against his citizens to do so. A pathetic one term man who will never again be in charge of BC once his term is up.
 
Early on I made the observation that even though Ottawa kept repeating that they will do "everything they can" to solve this crisis, it seems to me that the only thing they know how to do is throwing taxpayer's money at the problem and hope everything fixes itself. Isn't that how they keep Quebec happy?

They're wrong, ofcourse, because this was never a money issue in the first place. No matter who pay for, owns, and operates the pipeline, the same damn obstacles are still there.

What the Executive office needs to do is show some spine and prove that Canada is still a federation with a Federal government at the top, not a lawless fiefdom of warring dukes who can just unilaterally put their own interests over the country's.

I can get behind the idea of warring dukes! Time to put the 'Dominion' back in the 'Dominion of Canada'!

For example, I would consider voting Liberal if Trudeau had Horgan beheaded on the steps of Parliament for failing to swear fealty.

Just saying.
 
I had that feeling too for a while but the majority of British Columbians are for this project. Horgan is just desperately trying to cling on to power with the votes of the green party and is willing to go against his citizens to do so. A pathetic one term man who will never again be in charge of BC once his term is up.
The ones in favour are the ones that come to Alberta for work and the ones that will have jobs building the pipeline

Fuck bc, bunch of fucking hypocrites
 
I can get behind the idea of warring dukes! Time to put the 'Dominion' back in the 'Dominion of Canada'!

Full Cast:

- Alberta as planet Arrakis
- Duchess Notley of the House Altredes
- Baron Horgan of the House Harkonnen
- Emperor Trudeau of the House Corrino
- Revenue-sharing First Nations as the Fremen
- The Trans Mountain Pipeline as the last surviving Sand Worm
- Reverend Mother Elizabeth May and the Green Party as the Sisterhood of the Bene Gesserit.

"The Crude Must Flow"

250px-Dune-miniseries.jpg
 
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Full Cast:

- Alberta as planet Arrakis
- Duchess Notley of the House Altredes
- Baron Horgan of the House Harkonnen
- Emperor Trudeau of the House Corrino
- The Trans Mountain Pipeline as the last surviving Sand Worm
- Revenue-sharing First Nations as the Fremen
- The Green Party as the Sisterhood of the Bene Gesserit.

"The crude must flow".

250px-Dune-miniseries.jpg

"He who controls the crude, controls the universe."
 
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