#1 Fedor #2 Big Nog #3 Stipe

[I Am Legion]

Fedor has the title, but Stipe is way closer than many would admit. This 10 year undefeated thing is all bullshit....too many lesser fighters to make that worthy. But his wins vs CC, Big Nog, Arlovski and Hunt are worthy. Stipe is a few away from that. But I think Stipe beats Fedor. I think JDS and Cain do too. We already know Werdum does as well. So Fedors days are probably numbered.

 

[jaredmc16]

I'll concede that he wasn't in his prime when he starting losing but then ask... so what? So what if he took wear and tear competing in Sambo (which arguably made him better in MMA). How is that any different from discounting Cain and his limited career because of his training methods.

The whole issue does depend on longevity as someone pointed. But longevity how? Is a fighter "better" because he hung on near the top for 2 decades (as some of Fedor's contemporaries have)? Or is a fighter better and more goat-like because he had a superior 10 year run (like F.E)? or had a unmatched 5 year run? Why doesn't what do after your early 30s matter in the discussion? Should it? Depends on who you ask.

Under some of those criteria, certain fighters look better.
Under others they look worse.

These discussions always go in circles because nobody defines the parameters.

What are you skiing? Fedor DID have longevity. He has 40+ fights. Twice as many wins as most HWs in the UFC. Compared to Cains 16 fights...

 

[jeskola]

Every athlete in every sport has a prime and then declines and then retires.

There was prime Mike Tyson and then there was Tyson after prison.

There was prime Michael Jordan on the Bulls and then there was older MJ on the Wizards.

There was prime Chuck eating punches for breakfast and then past prime Chuck unable to take a punch.

MMA fighters especially get damaged in fights and in training all the time. All MMA fighters seem to decline and lose after about 9 years in the game. It will happen to the current greats one day. Time is undefeated

common knowledge, but everyone on forums take their own liberties with the "prime" definition and don't factor in advancements in training and evolution in technique over the years.

 

[jaredmc16]

You have Timmy but no Randy?

Of course... Randy doesn't belong on any top 10 list. How many hw wins did he even have.. like 10?? He never won more than 3-4 fights in a row in his entire career

 

[jaredmc16]

common knowledge, but everyone on forums take their own liberties with the "prime" definition and don't factor in advancements in training and evolution in technique over the years.

We still pushing the "new breed" and evolution of mma thing?

Because it isn't true

 

[wlu.29]

there is a certain delusion with fedor fanatics.

Nog was great but the guy had shit takedowns, no stand up or k.o. power and was unathletic and yes slow as fuck and not 'explosive'.. Guys like Ubereem, Mir, JDS, Cain, later on Cro Cop, Werdum, Fedor, Stipe, all destroy him.

I bet Ngannou beats him to assuming he cannot get a takedown.

still think fedor is the goat hw

but stipe has a pretty impressive resume

if he puts on a few more strong defences it would be a toss up

 

[jaredmc16]

Fedor has the title, but Stipe is way closer than many would admit. This 10 year undefeated thing is all bullshit....too many lesser fighters to make that worthy. But his wins vs CC, Big Nog, Arlovski and Hunt are worthy. Stipe is a few away from that. But I think Stipe beats Fedor. I think JDS and Cain do too. We already know Werdum does as well. So Fedors days are probably numbered.

Well since Stipe has already lost to a "lesser fighter", it's safe to say that Stipe couldn't go undefeated for 10 years against the same opponents

 

[MartinGibson86]

I'm fine with casuals brining up Stipe as one of the best HW's in the UFC, but he's not one of the best ever. It will take a lot for anyone to be in the same discussion as Fedor or Big Nog. The only ones that would be accepted around those names right now are Fabricio Werdum or Mirko CroCop. Not even Overeem or Ciagno would be debatable in that discussion.

Lunacy.

Lol at CroCop being above Stipe. 5-6 UFC record. Only 32 and by far the most heavily hyped signing ever. 14 wins against Japanese fighters. There isn't a single Japanese HW relevant anywhere in the world.

 

[Seaside]

still think fedor is the goat hw

but stipe has a pretty impressive resume

if he puts on a few more strong defences it would be a toss up

i think fedor being undefeated and what he did in judo and sambo and everything else make him such a GOAT he could of been mma undeniable goat forever but he never came to ufc and that hurt his legacy. then he lose 3x in a row and get k.o. by a under 200lb mw.

but yeah Fedor had such well rounded skills still top

 

[MartinGibson86]

Well since Stipe has already lost to a "lesser fighter", it's safe to say that Stipe couldn't go undefeated for 10 years against the same opponents

GTFO here Jason Reinhardt was undefeated for like 8 years.

You Pride fanboys are gonna cling to that Struve loss while Stipe is making his 10th defense.

 

[I Am Legion]

Well since Stipe has already lost to a "lesser fighter", it's safe to say that Stipe couldn't go undefeated for 10 years against the same opponents

But Fedor did lose 3 in a row. That doesn’t stop him from being a goat to me. And not for nothing But Struve is way better than at least 10 guys he beat in that streak.

 

[jaredmc16]

But Fedor did lose 3 in a row. That doesn’t stop him from being a goat to me. And not for nothing But Struve is way better than at least 10 guys he beat in that streak.

He lost at the end of his career.. which everyone does. Just like Stipe will.

Yes, Stipe is the fourth best hw of all time so he's going to be better than a lot of fedors wins

 

[jeskola]

You mean like Anderson Silva becoming the greatest fighter in UFC history? Shogun becoming LHW champ? Big nog becoming HW champ? Barnett had a pretty successful career too after Pride, or maybe you talking about Werdum also becoming UFC HW champ years later? Hendo certeinly didnt suck, he had many memorable moments after Pride and my favourite KO ever!

Yeah Cro Cop obviously got rekt by 7 knee surgeries after young Gonzaga welcomed him to the cage with elbows, and Wandy was never the same after Mirko nearly killed him in Pride, but saying they all completely sucked in UFC, i dont remember it like that at all.

- Shogun was what 6-8 in UFC as of 2014, around age 34 (prime?)
- Big Nog went 5-6 in the UFC and lost twice to Frank Mir at age 31 and 34, pretty prime ages.
- Barnett, after Pride, went 3-2 in UFC and got popped twice for roids. One of those losses was a 1st round ko loss to the much-heralded Travis Browne.
- Hendo went 7-9 in UFC - he is one of the only ones in your examples to really qualify as Pride being his "prime" (hate that term)
- Gomi went 4-9 in UFC
- Fedor never got the balls to fight in UFC but went 1-3 in Strikeforce at ages 33-35 - not exactly old man territory.
- CroCop went 4-6 in UFC with 2 of those losses at age 33-36, not exactly super old.

Anderson and sort of Werdum and Rampage did do good in UFC but I rest my case.

 

[jeskola]

We still pushing the "new breed" and evolution of mma thing?

Because it isn't true

or you could ignore reality and push the "back in my day" bullshit that statistics clearly refute.

"Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth were the best to ever do it! You young whippersnappers have no idea!! if they were around today in their prime!"

 

[Shaddows]

Fedor went undefeated for 10 years in the deepest heavyweight division on the planet (pride). People can talk shit about his competition but look at the ufcs top 10 heavyweights in the late 90s and early 2000s. Mostly journeyman nobodies that none of us can remember. Fedor had a few freakshow fights but outside of those FEW fights he beat top competition for a decade including 5 former UFC heavyweight champs and 2 victories over the #2 all time heavyweight.

Big Nog beat anyone and everyone not named fedor during that same time period.

Stipe is now the clear #3. Knockouts over Werdum, reem, arlovski, jds and hunt are an incredible feet.

If Stipe can put together a few more big wins he surpasses Big Nog.

The path to surpassing Fedor is steep. I'm not sure what conditions I would put in place for that. What do you guys think? What does Stipe need to do to surpass Fedor?

10 title defenses with a win over Cain, another win over Francis, and a win over Cormier? A win over returned jon jones?

I still think Werdum is ahead.
His wins over Fedor, Nog and Cain is better than Miocic's wins IMO.

Fedor
Nog
Werdum
Miocic

 

[Fight Professor]

It is not fair to compare UFC to the Japanese Wild West. What is the point of comparing different generations and variations of the sport? Nobody compares soccer with rugby.

JMMA: Fedor, Nog, CroCop, Megumi
Modern MMA: Stipe, Werdum, JDS, Cyborg

 

[jaredmc16]

- Shogun was what 6-8 in UFC as of 2014, around age 34 (prime?)
- Big Nog went 5-6 in the UFC and lost twice to Frank Mir at age 31 and 34, pretty prime ages.
- Barnett, after Pride, went 3-2 in UFC and got popped twice for roids. One of those losses was a 1st round ko loss to the much-heralded Travis Browne.
- Hendo went 7-9 in UFC - he is one of the only ones in your examples to really qualify as Pride being his "prime" (hate that term)
- Gomi went 4-9 in UFC
- Fedor never got the balls to fight in UFC but went 1-3 in Strikeforce at ages 33-35 - not exactly old man territory.
- CroCop went 4-6 in UFC with 2 of those losses at age 33-36, not exactly super old.

Anderson and sort of Werdum and Rampage did do good in UFC but I rest my case.

Cain is 1-1 in the last 4 years... does he suck??

You did realize that most pride fighters were at the end of their careers when they came to the UFC right? The fact that there are stil fighters around that fought in pride is amazing.

You're the type that will always think the current champ is the greatest ever. I'm sure you bought into all the new breed hype and all that.

Who IS good in your opinion??? I'd love for you to answer this without contradicting your anti pride stance

 

[Gambit MMA]

This is kind of insincere. They have KIND OF similar resumes, but the devil is the details.

Miocic's best wins:
Werdum
Overeem
JDS
Ngannou
Arlovski
Hunt

His supplementary wins:
Gonzaga
Roy Nelson
Del Rosario

JDS's best wins:
Werdum
Carwin
Cain
Mir
Hunt
Rothwell
Miocic

His supplementary wins:
Cro Cop
Gonzaga
Roy Nelson
Struve
Yvel

Now, on the surface, these are pretty similar. Both have Werdum, Gonzaga, Nelson, Hunt and Struve as common opponents, but JDS inarguably fought better versions of Nelson, Hunt and Gonzaga, and fought Struve in a similar position to Stipe (JDS's 8th fight, Miocic's 10th), and JDS won.

I'll give Stipe the Werdum win superiority, Werdum was HW Champion and had gotten very good wins underneath him, but he was also a top win for JDS, as Werdum was notably the number 1 contender fighting a stay busy fight against an unknown guy, but beyond that, JDS fought most of his top wins at their best or near it. Carwin was coming off a loss but was still a top guy, Cain was undefeated HW Champion, Mir was 3-0 since carwin and just submitted Nogueira, Miocic was on a good rebound streak post Struve, Hunt was 4-0 in his career resurgence, Rothwell was 4-0 in his career resurgence beating Overeem and Barnett. Miocic's win over JDS came as JDS was recovering from injury and was kind of damaged goods, Overeem was streaking but was also notably stop/start, but this is a good win. Hunt had been KO'd bad by JDS and Werdum, Arlovski was on a good streak but hadn't actually looked good in a very long time, and Ngannou was rushed along. Namewise, Stipe has a comparable resume to JDS, but the context of the wins matters immensely, and JDS's work in the division is unignorable.

Jds resume is def superior

 

[Typrune Goatley]

- Shogun was what 6-8 in UFC as of 2014, around age 34 (prime?)
- Big Nog went 5-6 in the UFC and lost twice to Frank Mir at age 31 and 34, pretty prime ages.
- Barnett, after Pride, went 3-2 in UFC and got popped twice for roids. One of those losses was a 1st round ko loss to the much-heralded Travis Browne.
- Hendo went 7-9 in UFC - he is one of the only ones in your examples to really qualify as Pride being his "prime" (hate that term)
- Gomi went 4-9 in UFC
- Fedor never got the balls to fight in UFC but went 1-3 in Strikeforce at ages 33-35 - not exactly old man territory.
- CroCop went 4-6 in UFC with 2 of those losses at age 33-36, not exactly super old.

Anderson and sort of Werdum and Rampage did do good in UFC but I rest my case.

5 PRIDE fighters won UFC belts

Werdum
Shogun
Nog
Anderson
Rampage

The other guys like Wanderlei and Cro Cop had a shit ton of mileage. Wand's last 2 fights in PRIDE he got ko'ed by CC and Hendo. Cro Cop already had 120 fights and had several injuries and surgeries during his UFC career
Go watch Wanderlei and Cro Cop from 2001 to 2006 and you will see them at their best.

 

[DayV]

Lunacy.

There isn't a single Japanese HW relevant anywhere in the world.

What matters is that they were relevant at the time when the fights happened.

Fujita was Top 10 HW,
Yoshida was top 15 HW,
Sakuraba was one of the best fighters overall at that time,
Ishii was on top of all lists of MMA prospects with 12-2 and wins over UFC legends Sylvia, Rizzo and Monson.