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Old 01-14-2014, 10:25 AM   #81
mhomburg

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Originally Posted by Oy View Post
First of all: If you don't see how Cro Cop could finish Cain, you're delusional. JDS and Kongo provided the blueprint of how to beat Cain: via strikes. I'm not saying that Cain wouldn't be the rightful favorite, I'm saying that prime Cro Cop has as big a chance of beating him as most any HWs today.

Great TDD and killer standup is still viable today, even if it's a limited arsenal. Which goes for prime Chuck vs Bones too.

You're telling me that after the Gustafsson fight you don't think Chuck would be a huge problem for Jones? If he can take him down, he's not holding him down. And Chuck would walk through Jones' reach to land something.
Chuck doesn't have near the reach or size of Gus, although he did have a lot more power. I just don't see him having any success closing the distance on Jones.

And CC would have a decent punchers chance, but other than that he would fare no better than anyone else with Cain. I was slow to come around on him, but he is as well rounded and fearless as any HW we have ever seen. CC could not keep up with the relentless pace that Cain sets and would be pounded out in a hypothetical prime vs prime matchup.

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Old 01-14-2014, 10:28 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by bangard View Post
No they don't stand a chance because you know...new breed, evolution, super athletes bla bla bla.......
It's Rogan's fault, mostly.

What's changed a lot is that BJJ isn't a "secret" anymore. Generally fighters defend well against submissions and are better conditioned. That's about it.

Other than that the "evolution" of fighters on an individual level isn't even a sure thing. I think it was Askren whom talked about how much Hedricks' wrestling had deteriorated, which was a pretty strange notion to me. But I'm sure Askren sees things I don't.

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Old 01-14-2014, 10:41 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by mhomburg View Post
Chuck doesn't have near the reach or size of Gus, although he did have a lot more power. I just don't see him having any success closing the distance on Jones.

And CC would have a decent punchers chance, but other than that he would fare no better than anyone else with Cain. I was slow to come around on him, but he is as well rounded and fearless as any HW we have ever seen. CC could not keep up with the relentless pace that Cain sets and would be pounded out in a hypothetical prime vs prime matchup.
Chuck would probably be able to make the ground game a non-factor, like Gus. And prime, alpha Chuck (with that look in his eyes) would not be looking to score points. I just have the feeling that the "new breed" of pitter patter, unorthodox striking would NOT end well against that kind of aggression.

And I agree about Cain - he beats almost all HWs almost all the time. (Werdum's BJJ and credible striking might be his kryptonite, who knows? Or Browne's elbows up against the fence?)

Having said that I think Cain loses 1 fight out of 5, via strikes. He's not invulnerable and can be caught by a blitzing Reem or a prime, killer CC.

My point is that Cain is not the product of MMA "evolving". He's just a cardio machine with great wrestling and good striking. He's a perfect storm of individual abilities, rather than any kind of "new breed".

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Old 01-14-2014, 10:55 AM   #84
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Vitor hasn't evolved ? so he's knocking out people with headkicks are for shits and giggles? not because he had to evolve so he wouldn't keep breaking his hands...... Seems Legit

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Old 01-14-2014, 10:59 AM   #85
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If Vitor beats Weidman it will put to bed the idea that he is anything special.

Can you imagine? Weidman's career will have consisted of 2 fluky wins over Anderson, a horrible fight with Maia, and a dominate win over Munoz. Not a great legacy.
Even if Vitor starches Weidman in the 1st Weidman has already proven that he's something special.

I place less importance on the 2nd Silva fight, but the first fight even in lieu of Silva's clowning it took an exceptionally skilled fighter to capitalize. Take someone like Rockhold and Silva probably would have clowned all the way to a decision win.


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Old 01-14-2014, 11:01 AM   #86
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Vitor wasn't on TRT nor throwing impressive head kicks too often, if at all, back in the day.

So what the fuck are you talking about TS?

Thoughts?

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Old 01-14-2014, 11:03 AM   #87
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You're telling me that after the Gustafsson fight you don't think Chuck would be a huge problem for Jones? If he can take him down, he's not holding him down. And Chuck would walk through Jones' reach to land something.
Jones would beat the dog shit out of any version of Chuck.

And I'm not a fan of Jones.

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Old 01-14-2014, 11:07 AM   #88
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Vitor's success is in complete contrast to your notion of the lack evolution in MMA.

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