If Fedor came out of retirement and went into the UFC how well would he do?

[BlizzardVeers]

Originally Posted by moreorless87

I'm sorry but thats more grossly simplifed, contridictory and just plain wrong analysis that once again strong hints you have very little knowledge of the era your commenting on.

Crocop was "one dimentional" according to you yet JDS today represents some kind of forward movement in MMA? both men have/had exellent takedown defence as we saw in fights like Mirko/Coleman and Mirko/Barnett, difference being one of them has prooven world class kickboxing.

People need to stop repeating the myth that Nogs striking was "underdevolped", this same "underdevolped" Nog had been training boxing for over a decade and went toe to toe with Sergei for the better part of 10 mins standing. Whats changed is that the UFC HW division today has a lower standard of striking as represented by someone like Shaub being top 10 and generally worse chins aswell. When Nog was in the situation where he was exchanging with an inferior fighter who couldnt take him down the results were KO's like Kikuta or him hurting opposition like Werdum.

The last few months really have for me been the final nail in the coffin of the entire "new breed" hype that lets be honiest was cooked up by the UFC to cover there inability to sign several established names. Guys like Lesnar, Carwin, Cain, JDS and now Overeem havent just lost matchs but they've lost matches showing pretty clear flaws in their games.

Preface this with: I agree with the statements I'm quoting.

To say that todays heavyweights are more skilled than the 2003-2006 era of PRIDE heavyweights is a ridiculous statement. Heavyweight has always been a division that has been a focus in the sport, and as a result, the talent level has always been higher in this division than others. While we see a clear difference in Welterweight/Lightweight fighters - the divisions that were larger in the past (LHW/MW/HW) we don't see a huge difference in the majority of the fighters.

If we want to judge the HW Pride division vs what was stated in the post you quoted.

Cro Cop was a one dimensional, extremely dangerous striker with KO power in his hands and both legs when he struck. He always intended to finish a fight with whatever he threw. He had a fantastic sprawl and had excellent reflexes and instinct regarding that. He was incredibly explosive and had a decent top game, not to mention how vicious his ground strikes could be.

vs

JDS who is also a one dimension boxer with not as many options to attack aside from his hands. He has excellent range and timing. He intends to end fights with his combinations, every time. His takedown defense is excellent, and he's very strong. We've never really seem him utilize his ground game to finish a fight, but that's because he hasn't had to.

I think Cro Cop's varied attack in his youth, his aggression and his speed would overwhelm JDS.

Josh Barnett to your Antonio Silva (both fighters that I think have the skills to beat Fedor). Monsters with huge power in their hands, the same size, Barnett edges out Silva in the wrestling and submissions department, simply because Barnett actually goes for submissions.

Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira and his excellent boxing and top level BJJ vs Fabricio Werdum with his great muay thai and top level BJJ. In this situation, it's a joke to say that Werdum would tool Nogueira in his prime, because Big Nog and Werdum's submissions have always been similar in terms of technique and skill level when it came to MMA. If it came to striking, I would take Big Nog of yesterday over Werdum of today still. His boxing was top notch, and aside from Fedor and Cro Cop, no one ever outstruck him during that period.

Honestly, I can do this for the other two named fighters, but it's silly to do so.

The top level PRIDE Heavyweights were equal if not better to the division's top fighters of today. The heavyweights that are high level today are not some magical unicorns that are just better. If you placed JDS of today vs Mirko of 2004 without any knowledge of who the two fighters were between them, no tape to study them - etc, would you really take JDS over Mirko? Would you take Antonio Silva of today over Josh Barnett of 2004? Fabricio Werdum of today vs Big Nog of 2004? What about Cain over Fedor of 2004?

The talent level is a non-issue at Heavyweight.

[SamboPunch]

How do you factor in competition when we're talking about skillsets....

Also, how did I know you were going to go off track with your argument and start the whole "Fedor fought guys that weren't as skilled" sort of nonsense?

Because it's the same argument reused over and over again by people who don't know what they're talking about when it comes to Fedor.

[moreorless87]

Originally Posted by BlizzardVeers

Preface this with: I agree with the statements I'm quoting.

To say that todays heavyweights are more skilled than the 2003-2006 era of PRIDE heavyweights is a ridiculous statement. Heavyweight has always been a division that has been a focus in the sport, and as a result, the talent level has always been higher in this division than others. While we see a clear difference in Welterweight/Lightweight fighters - the divisions that were larger in the past (LHW/MW/HW) we don't see a huge difference in the majority of the fighters.

This is really the main issue for me, in terms of actual training I don't think MMA has really changed much at all over the last decade, tactics have changed to suit different judging criteria but the best guys back in the day were on the same diet of boxing, MT, BJJ, wrestling, Judo etc as they are today.

As you say whats changed is the economics of the sport, 10 years ago HW had been offering serious money for a good 6-7 years previous and LHW had been offering it for 2-3 years. You go below that though and things clearly change, nobody was offering big money at 185 in that era(and indeed for awhile afterwards), the UFC were offering decent but not massive money at 170 and 155 was just starting to see it with Gomi becoming the first star.

Indeed the UFC's very own hype often mentions this when talking about the "new breed" being drawn in by the sports sucess. What they miss out of course is that the sport was very sucessful for almost a decade in Japan(and a brief spell in the US) before it took off again in the US in 05/06. Heck someone like Lesnar is pretty much Mark Kerr 2.0 as history has shown yet most of Sherdog seemed to think it was some massive advancement in MMA.

Basically what Nikki's arguement amounts to is "the guys who lost back in the day have all improved but the guys who lost today have not declined....because I say so". The idea that todays Nog hasnt declined but indeed has actually improved to me exposes just how many Sherdogers knowledge of that era doesnt go beyond watching a handful of matches and fightfinder(look no TKO wins for Nog in Pride and Rogan said he always got his ass kicked!). Of course theres nothing wrong with not having indepth knowledge, I'd fully admit there are era's and standards of MMA I'v limated knowledge of, the difference is I don't pretend to be an expert on them to hype up my own biases.

[lowlife wwe fan]

fedor last 3 fights says he should just stay retired.