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Old 04-11-2014, 08:56 PM   #491
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Originally Posted by jenlan View Post
How long was Nog out?
Was out for a good minute

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Old 04-11-2014, 09:42 PM   #492
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Nog looked like crap more than Nelson looked "good."

Nog should retire and if he won't, be cut.

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Old 04-12-2014, 12:36 AM   #493
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God this is depressing.

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Old 04-12-2014, 05:08 AM   #494
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I didn't think Nog's IQ was the issue. He tried to clinch Roy, tried to bully him back to the cage, tried to jab and move, tried to keep his chin down to avoid the overhand right. Nelson landed the uppercut and that was pretty much it. I'd blame Nog's age and his lack of speed/reflexes before I'd blame his IQ.
I think you might have undone your own point there. Staying on the outside is one strategy, clinching on the inside is another. Switching between the two negates the advantage of the other and is, or should I say was a recipe for disaster.

The last 2 losses for Roy have shown while his gas tank depletes, he clings to his 'home run' right while being easy pickings for his opponent.
We saw how dire it was for the heavyweights on UFC 135 at elevation, I can imagine this would have been and taking note of the heavyweight clash on the prelims, should have been the same for the main event.
On the other hand, Big Nog has a relatively good sort of cardio.
Nog had 5 rounds in a hot and humid arena, everything could have been in his favour.

Nog's age and lessened ability was a factor, no doubt, but that is all the more reason why he should not have tried to box with Roy.
Nog loves to box, but it is not his strength. His grappling should have been his only thought in the first round, making every attempt to tire Nelson out.

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Old 04-12-2014, 09:11 AM   #495
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Nog needs to retire. If he's going to be at the mercy of Joe Silva's horrendous matchmaking it's better for him.

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Old 04-12-2014, 11:04 AM   #496
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Originally Posted by Mayor View Post
I didn't think Nog's IQ was the issue. He tried to clinch Roy, tried to bully him back to the cage, tried to jab and move, tried to keep his chin down to avoid the overhand right. Nelson landed the uppercut and that was pretty much it. I'd blame Nog's age and his lack of speed/reflexes before I'd blame his IQ.
The problem I'd say as well is that Nogs decline isn't just in his standup but in his overall mobility. He was never a great technical wrestler but often his speed and agility helped him take opponents down, the kind of takedown he hit on Crocop for example he just couldn't do today.

Ultimately I think he best tactic was always to avoid getting hit in the 1st and then win a decision as Roy tired, once that rather uncharacteristic(for Nelson) first knockdown happened he became even easier to hit and it was really just a question of wther Roy exploited it or not.


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Old 04-12-2014, 11:21 AM   #497
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Well, he was done in the first place primarily because he chose to circle in that direction, when putting your head in front of Roy Nelson's rear shoulder is the LAST thing anyone wants to do; just ask Cheick Kongo etc...

To repeat: circling towards the right hand with zero movement of which to speak of against a power-hitter the likes of Dan Henderson or Roy Nelson is a veritable death sentence, and any fighter who choose to do that, is plainly not there to win.

But if he had simply not begun circling in that direction to begin with, Nelson would have been completely unable to cut him off, because he does not have a left hook or high kick or really anything else besides his right hand. Conclusively, Nogueira pretty much fed him the kayo. Good hand position really only comes into play during chest-to-chest exchanges in the phonebooth and would not have saved him.

Just watch Nelson-Miocic, really. Stipe figured out quick that if you continually circle into Nelson's left hand, he just can't do anything beyond attempting to swing his right hand across his body.
Nelson hit Nogueira with some effective lefts though

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Old 04-12-2014, 12:53 PM   #498
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Damn. That was a fuckin crazy hard last right hand. Jacked Nog's skull around badly.

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Old 04-12-2014, 05:34 PM   #499
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Seemed to me that Roy wanted to give Nog a lot of time to recover and some serious respect towards Nog.
No doubt

Nog is famous for resilience, heart, stamina.

Roy is infamous for burning out in five minutes.

If Roy pounced he could've gotten tangled up on the ground for long enough to get tired. Nelson fought perfectly. He kept loading up the punch we expected and repeatedly tagged Nog with his left and he had that uppercut. Nog seemed to have trained to execute the gameplan used by Orange Crush Stipe but Nelson executed the plan to beat that one and Nog wasn't fast enough.

It was a fun sad fight

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Old 04-12-2014, 06:55 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by Composure40 View Post
I think you might have undone your own point there. Staying on the outside is one strategy, clinching on the inside is another. Switching between the two negates the advantage of the other and is, or should I say was a recipe for disaster.

The last 2 losses for Roy have shown while his gas tank depletes, he clings to his 'home run' right while being easy pickings for his opponent.
We saw how dire it was for the heavyweights on UFC 135 at elevation, I can imagine this would have been and taking note of the heavyweight clash on the prelims, should have been the same for the main event.
On the other hand, Big Nog has a relatively good sort of cardio.
Nog had 5 rounds in a hot and humid arena, everything could have been in his favour.

Nog's age and lessened ability was a factor, no doubt, but that is all the more reason why he should not have tried to box with Roy.
Nog loves to box, but it is not his strength. His grappling should have been his only thought in the first round, making every attempt to tire Nelson out.
Of course you can try both angles in MMA. It actually helps a fighter get into the clinch if his opponent respects his striking. Same with takedowns. Nog was trying to grab Roy; that didn't work. He tried to jab Roy to get him to turtle a bit so he could clinch him or at least out-point him; that didn't work either.

Point is that Nog had a plan, and it involved avoiding the overhand and getting into a clinch, working his jab, moving, boxing, winning on points and maybe getting a late sub. Nelson shut down all of that with his own footwork, takedown defense, jab, then an uppercut and finished with the patented overhand right. But it certainly was not just the overhand right that won it for him. He had to defend some committed clinch attempts and neutralize Nog's boxing and jab first before he could put Nog away.

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