Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums

Go Back   Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Fight Discussion > UFC Discussion

UFC Discussion Discuss UFC, former WEC and former Pride events here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-16-2014, 08:19 PM   #261
1strikeclothing

Black Belt
 
1strikeclothing's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 6,473
vCash: 500
I enjoyed the fight. I know a lot more of the casual fans starting to watch the FW division.

__________________
eBay Store.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/1strike_mma/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_from=&_ipg=25&_trksid=p3692

PM for http://www.virusintl.com/index.html discounts.
1strikeclothing is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2014, 08:43 PM   #262
Dragonseeker

Green Belt
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Sacramento
Posts: 1,405
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayweary View Post
In terms of boxing, you are saying that they complain about the fighter but not the weight class. Perhaps that highlights a difference in the boxing and MMA models. In MMA, it isn't just the marquis fight that is supposed to deliver. If you are a hardcore MMA fan, you are watching every fight on the card closely. If you are watching a boxing card, I don't think you consider all of the fights that happen as important enough even to watch. So, when you are presented with a large number of fights due to the inclusion of a weight class you find wanting, that is going to affect you more consistently. You see this with WMMA as well where people don't mind the marquis fights with Ronda as much as they do the others since Ronda is a name, thus bringing some interest to the proceedings where as if it is two relatively unknown women, the fight has to stand on its own.
I am not sure I follow you at all on this. Hardcore boxing fans watch every boxing fight like hardcore MMA fans. Just visit the boxing forum and you will see tons of boxing fans watching the under card. I understand that boxing under cards are usually subpar, but I don't see any evidence of what you are suggesting--that is boxing fans don't complain as much because they don't care about the preceding fights as much. Hardcore boxing fans are some of the most meticulous analyzers of any sport fans. How many boxing fans do you think will complain if there is a boxing card with a lot of good 145-135 pound fighters? Likewise, how many MMA fans will complain with a card filled with 135-145 pound fighters? Even good ones, MMA fans complain about it a lot more.

Quote:
Another thing I'll say is that you make a lot of sweeping generalizations about what boxing fans do and don't say and I don't believe it is likely that you have an adequate sample size to make them. There are boxing fans that don't like the lighter weight classes just like there are MMA fans that feel the same way.
Oh I am sure there are some boxing fans out there that don't like the smaller weight classes. But it is a fact that the some most popular fighters on earth weights less than 150 pounds and two of them consistently got over 1 million PPV buys per fight for years. In the boxing forum, how many topics do you see comparing small fighters to midgets? Or manlets? How many times have you seen boxing fans post topics about the abolishment of sub 150 classes? In this forum, it is like every day or every time there is a fight with small fighters.

Quote:
Also, finishing rate is just one aspect. The potential for a single strike to change the dynamic of a fight is greater in the higher weight classes. The change in position due to a sweep or a take down is more significant for the heavier weight classes because it is simply objectively harder to keep people in place and controlled for lower weight classes, etc. The ebb and flow of the fight isn't the same. With the lower weight classes it can sometimes seem like you are just watching the strike count add up to decide who will be the winner. As one fighter builds up an insurmountable lead, you don't have much expectation that the other fighter can turn it around, etc. The was evidenced, I believe, by the fact that many viewers who paid good money to attend the show live were filing out of the venue before the MM fight was done with the fourth round.
This is true in boxing as well so I am not sure how this dispute anything that I said. Of course the fighting dynamics of big guys are different than little guys. But boxing fans have learned to appreciate both, and a lot of MMA fans have not. The truth is, those MMA fans that think a fight cannot turn around because the fighters are small are just wrong. Marquez knocked out Pacman in the sixth round where Pac was dominating the fight. In MMA, Sanchez almost KO Melendez in the third round. MM had a boring fight in UFC 174 so I understand why people are filing out. But that hardly a benchmark fight for MM. People forgot that MM KOed Benavidez and submitted Moraga the two fights before.

Either a lot MMA fans are wrong and uneducated, or they really have a twisted view of reality.

Quote:
That's a pretty ignorant perception. Form follows function. The beauty of the technique is intimately tied to its effectiveness for its intended purpose which is to fight effectively and especially to win outright. If you start denying that this is the sport of fighting, you are on the opposite end of the spectrum of the "just bleed" fans but just as bad, imo.
All combat sports are the sport of fighting. Let's not pretend only MMA is "fighting." And everyone has his or her own preference. But what we are seeing here is not preference, it is pure hatred. Virtually every combat sports in the world, from Muay Thai to Boxing have smaller weight classes and people have accepted them. Only in MMA do fans consistently try to put those fighters down. I seriously don't see anywhere near the amount of hate for smaller weight classes in the K-1 forum or the boxing forum.

Dragonseeker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2014, 08:57 PM   #263
Kryptik

Green Belt
 
Kryptik's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 992
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonseeker View Post
All combat sports are the sport of fighting. Let's not pretend only MMA is "fighting." And everyone has his or her own preference. But what we are seeing here is not preference, it is pure hatred. Virtually every combat sports in the world, from Muay Thai to Boxing have smaller weight classes and people have accepted them. Only in MMA do fans consistently try to put those fighters down. I seriously don't see anywhere near the amount of hate for smaller weight classes in the K-1 forum or the boxing forum.
This. This is what consistently frustrates me about this subject. It goes so far beyond just not liking the divisions or saying the divisions are boring, and instead leaps to blaming them specifically for the UFC's woes and lobbying for their total blackballing as if they tainted the very sport. Like you said, you just don't see that kind of sheer hatred on any other division in any other sport. Not to mention how it bleeds over into treating people who actually enjoy the divisions as little better than 'midgets' as well.

Kryptik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 03:21 AM   #264
mikekoz68

Orange Belt
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 278
vCash: 500
Just went and watched the Johnson vs Macall fights and they were pretty good. I think its my first time watching 125ers, maybe I watched Johnson before on a card with Barao? Anyways it was good, when you get into the fight the size becomes less apparent, maybe they should look at getting refs that are 5'6" or so (being serious) so that when the non-6foot refs come in to break them up, you're not shocked at how small these guys are

mikekoz68 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 03:26 AM   #265
Zeta Reticuli

Green Belt
 
Zeta Reticuli's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Your Planet
Posts: 1,071
vCash: 500
Kim Winslow should be default ref for these

Zeta Reticuli is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2014, 03:28 AM   #266
Jibsta69

Blue Belt
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 507
vCash: 500
I lold at TS post for some reason lol

Jibsta69 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Latest Threads



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:49 AM.

Sherdog.com Forum Rules Clear Cookies Social Groups Lost Password
Contact Us - Sherdog Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices

Skin made by Alex. © iStyles.uni.cc Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
forums.sherdog.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.
monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"