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Old 08-09-2014, 05:56 PM   #71
Ancuetas

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Originally Posted by Wayweary View Post
Didn't I just say that this is not a "pure wrestling" contest? That's going to matter a lot. Anyway, Cormier was able to elevate Barnett because of technique, not pure strength. That means he had good technique and Barnett had bad technique. He didn't elevate him with "just a single leg." He had a high crotch which is how you would get that sort of a slam; nothing superhuman or unheard of about it.

If Jones has the wrong body type to be a wrestler, how is it that he was a JUCO National Champion? He had offers on the table to go to Iowa State I believe and other D1 wrestling schools. Even Cormier admits that he would have been a top level D1 athlete on the basis of what he accomplished in scholastic wrestling and in college. Instead, he went into fighting and became champion which is still only a goal for DC at this point, after his failed Olympics bids. So, we have Jones who is a younger and more skilled than anyone DC has beaten as both a fighter and a wrestler, and is still coming into his prime. On the other hand, we have DC who is a chubby challenger at 35 years of age, already past his prime wrestling years. He's looked good in the shallowest male division in MMA at HW. At LHW he's been given two dream match ups for him. Jones is another animal, entirely.
This isn't a pure wrestling match, but Cormier is the much better wrestler of the two. His wresting has fully transitionned in MMA, and no matter how good you think Jones was good at wrestling at his school, he never pursued and never reached anywhere near the level of Cormier, who is far away the better wrestler of the two.

Jones being lanky would greatly help for the slam attempt, so it was a point to make about is body type.

Jones is a great fighter but Cormier is better than him. You discredit Cormier as a old washep up wrestler, when he is a undefeated prodigy who has blasted through everyone, including top fighters like Barnett or Henderson and very tough HW opponents like Mir, Antonio Silva and Monson.

Jones will find that fighting Rashad, Belfort or past his prime Rampage or Shogun is totally different from fighting Cormier who is far above anything he has seen and met.

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Old 08-09-2014, 06:11 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Ancuetas View Post
This isn't a pure wrestling match, but Cormier is the much better wrestler of the two. His wresting has fully transitionned in MMA, and no matter how good you think Jones was good at wrestling at his school, he never pursued and never reached anywhere near the level of Cormier, who is far away the better wrestler of the two.

Jones being lanky would greatly help for the slam attempt, so it was a point to make about is body type.

Jones is a great fighter but Cormier is better than him. You discredit Cormier as a old washep up wrestler, when he is a undefeated prodigy who has blasted through everyone, including top fighters like Barnett or Henderson and very tough HW opponents like Mir, Antonio Silva and Monson.

Jones will find that fighting Rashad, Belfort or past his prime Rampage or Shogun is totally different from fighting Cormier who is far above anything he has seen and met.
I wouldn't describe him as washed up, but you can't deny that Jones is younger and more likely to be close to his athletic prime. DC is already likely past his prime or he would still be pursuing Olympic gold. Jones being taller can be an advantage in grappling as sure as it can be a disadvantage as you perceive it. Jones is used to his own frame so he won't really be giving things up simply by being taller. He knows how to sprawl, how to get his hips lower, etc. I think he'll be fine. Even if DC does outwrestle Jones in this fight, it won't be a matter of ragdolling Jones. The notion is just silly.

Henderson is not a top fighter these days. He passed his prime some time ago and was fighting in the wrong weight class. He hasn't looked all that impressive really since the Fedor fight. He barely has a job at this point.

Antonio Silva is a slow plodding fighter that is overrated (he caught a couple breaks finishing off an injured fighter and then one that gassed). Monson is not a good win these days; he's old and one-dimensional. Mir was an OK win, but Mir has been on a skid as well. Also, that was an ugly fight. If he comes in against Jones like that, he'll get trashed.

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Old 08-09-2014, 06:19 PM   #73
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I wouldn't describe him as washed up, but you can't deny that Jones is younger and more likely to be close to his athletic prime. DC is already likely past his prime or he would still be pursuing Olympic gold. Jones being taller can be an advantage in grappling as sure as it can be a disadvantage as you perceive it. Jones is used to his own frame so he won't really be giving things up simply by being taller. He knows how to sprawl, how to get his hips lower, etc. I think he'll be fine. Even if DC does outwrestle Jones in this fight, it won't be a matter of ragdolling Jones. The notion is just silly.

Henderson is not a top fighter these days. He passed his prime some time ago and was fighting in the wrong weight class. He hasn't looked all that impressive really since the Fedor fight. He barely has a job at this point.

Antonio Silva is a slow plodding fighter that is overrated (he caught a couple breaks finishing off an injured fighter and then one that gassed). Monson is not a good win these days; he's old and one-dimensional. Mir was an OK win, but Mir has been on a skid as well. Also, that was an ugly fight. If he comes in against Jones like that, he'll get trashed.
There is a lot of money in the UFC and in MMA, more than in wrestling. Cormier may not be at his absolute athletic peak, he is still an amazing wrestler and has showed it in all his fights. Jones wrestling did not look so good against Gustafsson.

You can discredit all of Cormier wins, Jones wins aren't better. Shogun got beaten two times by Hendo and is washed up. Rampage is old and at the very end of his career much more than Hendo. Sonnen never was a factor in anything and Belfort has poor wrestling and no heart at all when bullied. Teixera is nothing special and Gustaffson gave Jones a very close fight.

I look at all Jones victories and I don't see any of them beating Cormier.

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Old 08-09-2014, 06:25 PM   #74
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You can discredit all of Cormier wins, Jones wins aren't better.
How about we don't discredit either of their wins? They both have beaten some great fighters.

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Old 08-09-2014, 06:28 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Ancuetas View Post
There is a lot of money in the UFC and in MMA, more than in wrestling. Cormier may not be at his absolute athletic peak, he is still an amazing wrestler and has showed it in all his fights. Jones wrestling did not look so good against Gustafsson.

You can discredit all of Cormier wins, Jones wins aren't better. Shogun got beaten two times by Hendo and is washed up.
Sure, maybe now. Even though he was tooling Henderson before Hendo managed to come back and clipped him with his hail mary. When Jones walked through him like he was paper, though, he was the champion.

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Rampage is old and at the very end of his career much more than Hendo.
Are you kidding? He is still fighting and winning, at least. Hendo has looked terrible for a while now. Even when he wins, it's a hail mary.

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Sonnen never was a factor in anything and Belfort has poor wrestling and no heart at all when bullied.
I can kind of agree on these two, but dont' pretend that Belfort isn't dangerous.

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Teixera is nothing special
He's actually a very dangerous guy. Earned his shot, got beat. Legit win for Jones. Much more legit than anything Cormier has done at LHW.

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and Gustaffson gave Jones a very close fight.

I look at all Jones victories and I don't see any of them beating Cormier.
Well, it's hard to say if they could or couldn't. Cormier is coming from HW which is a pretty damned shallow division. Cormier proved to be very good at that weight class and has shown to be quite capable of dealing with inexperienced and undersized fighters at LHW, but he hasn't faced anyone with Jones' MMA credentials yet.

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Old 08-09-2014, 06:36 PM   #76
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How about we don't discredit either of their wins? They both have beaten some great fighters.
That's madness.

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Old 08-09-2014, 06:38 PM   #77
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Well, it's hard to say if they could or couldn't. Cormier is coming from HW which is a pretty damned shallow division. Cormier proved to be very good at that weight class and has shown to be quite capable of dealing with inexperienced and undersized fighters at LHW, but he hasn't faced anyone with Jones' MMA credentials yet.
And to me Jones hasn't fought anybody as good as Cormier. I feel that we have seen Jones limits against Gustaffson for the first time. We haven't seen any of the limit of Cormier.
Jones is a great fighter and and has good victories including highly rated fighters but Cormier has good victories too and discrediting all these victories, that Cormier made look like easy, isn't fair.

Jones can think that he has better wins that Cormier, it won't boost his chance for their fights. Like I said, looking at the list of Jones victories, I don't see Teixera , Machida or Belfort troubling Cormier. I don't see Mir or Nelson beating Jones as well.

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Old 08-09-2014, 06:41 PM   #78
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Wait... did u say jab?
More importantly: did he actually mention Jon Jones in the same breath as Georges St-Pierre...?

Hahahahaha
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As much as I absolutely hate Jon and hope he gets beaten down hard by DC - I realistically know that DC has no fucking chance.

DC is slower, far shorter, has the reach of a five year old, and is not that fantastic of a wrestler.
No wonder you're on dubs after 2 months if you're posting nonsense like that... jesus.

People like to talk about Jones's TDD, and never the TDD that Cain fucking Velasquez can't beat in training.

Even during his time as a wrestler, DC was known for being essentially impossible to take down outside of the Western Hemisphere.

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Old 08-09-2014, 07:09 PM   #79
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Blahblah there's always that and this. He's done this and that. Jones will trip Cormier when they clinch and Cormier will be hesitant and afraid after that and he'll eat some body kicks which he will eventually fall to the ground on. Jones by TKO round 2-3.

Laugh all you want, you gonna be thinking of me when Jones finishes dc. ;)
Nawh dude LOL nice try. DC eats him alive. Too powerful, to good of a wrestler. Jones is done.

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