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Old 07-15-2014, 02:01 PM   #71
Steve08

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No....submissions are wrestling based from the beginning science it's the oldest form of grappling. Bjj, judo, and sambo all attribute different submissions as well.
Sambo is nothing more than wrestling + judo, but yeah. I am pretty sure that even the Greeks realized, "hey, if I grab his wrist and tug his arm behind his back then he probably won't like it!"

Images of ancient Pankration on Greek urns, pots etc. will also reveal the presence of kicks, armlocks, and the like, which is truly fascinating to me.

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Old 07-15-2014, 02:04 PM   #72
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BJJ has the widest range of submissions (AFAIK) of any grappling art so it kind of makes sense to attribute submissions to BJJ.

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Old 07-15-2014, 02:06 PM   #73
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He's right; scholastic wrestling would appear quite similar to Catch of antiquity if submissions were allowed, and I have seen wrestlers with no BJJ experience grab a kimura from the bottom to reverse position.

Mark Schultz also once proposed that idea; legalize submissions in scholastic wrestling. I can't say I disagree. Something just seems more decisive about literally forcing a guy to quit as opposed to pinning him to the mat for a few seconds.
I like that idea, can you imagine how much better a guy like Weidman would be had he been familiar with submissions since he was a child?

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Old 07-15-2014, 02:08 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by FinBJJ View Post
BJJ has the widest range of submissions (AFAIK) of any grappling art so it kind of makes sense to attribute submissions to BJJ.
This is true. You can learn submissions from outside jiu-jitsu, to be sure, but the vast majority of those who do, learn it in a jiu-jitsu environment.

I also wholeheartedly believe that it is the most complete, effective grappling art, but perhaps I am just biased.
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I like that idea, can you imagine how much better a guy like Weidman would be had he been familiar with submissions since he was a child?


that would be legitimately scary..............

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Old 07-15-2014, 02:21 PM   #75
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i learned the darce and kimura like my first class of bjj
yeah but bjj didnt invent them.

kimura = reverse ude garami in judo.

double wrist lock in some submission wrestling styles.


honestly pretty much all submissions exist in nearly all grappling styles allowing that form of submissions.

armbar = juji gatame , etc etc

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Old 07-15-2014, 02:37 PM   #76
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Where did you come up with that? It was a headlock ala Dave Schultz.
There's no such thing as an inverted anaconda as far as I know. Unless you insist on calling the d'arce an inverted anaconda.
Rogan either called it that or "inverted north south choke." Some shit. I should have clarified that I have no formal background in any grappling. Just throwing in my examples of subs that aren't exactly BJJ based...

But I would like to raise you Charles Oliviera's inverted anaconda that he hit Hioki recently with as well as Popo Bezzera with earlier in his career. (Which is a great fight, btw)

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Old 07-15-2014, 02:44 PM   #77
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There are tons of submission techniques in judo; chokes, strangles, arm-locks, leg-locks, knee-bars, neck-cranks, wrist-locks etc., etc... Only chokes, strangles and arm-locks are allowed in competition, but there are thousands of variations of them...

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Old 07-15-2014, 02:48 PM   #78
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But I would like to raise you Charles Oliviera's inverted anaconda that he hit Hioki recently with as well as Popo Bezzera with earlier in his career. (Which is a great fight, btw)
They are just regular anacondas finished by pulling the opponent to guard.

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Old 07-15-2014, 03:02 PM   #79
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Judo and catch influenced each other and eventually influenced bjj. What bjj did really well was create a positional hierarchy and the transitions between said positions. Grappling is universal so no one can really lay claim to anything in particular, but if bjj could claim something then it would be defining all the major combat positions on the ground and how to use them in a fight.

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Old 07-15-2014, 03:35 PM   #80
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American folkstyle wrestling derives from catch wrestling. As wrestling became a scholastic sport the submissions were removed, a scoring system was developed and time limits imposed.

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