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Old 07-17-2014, 02:39 AM   #501
209Homie

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Originally Posted by Lapid View Post
Seems like this thread has finally lost momentum. I guess it's for the best, seeing as how some of you have took it upon yourselves to hijack the discussion and steer it completely off topic. Regardless, I appreciate everyone's input, it was very interesting to see the wide-ranging responses, both negative and positive.
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Old 07-17-2014, 04:59 AM   #502
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Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Alpha Brain is suspect, yet he keeps selling it.

I posted this before, but some of you may have missed it:


Ranrexo 12 points 4 days ago
"Let me quickly point something out:
"We looked around at the best scientific research, and the best grown Earth nutrient resources we could find, and put together a combination. A couple of years later, a few hundred thousand customers, medical professionals, elite athletes, and of course our double blind clinical trial we created Alpha Brain".

Sounds good right? Except that's not the chronology at all. They did not do research, get medical professionals involved, carry out a double blind clinical trial AND THEN created Alpha Brain. They created Alpha Brain, got called out by actual medical professionals for making completely unsubstantiated claims, had to change their formula repeatedly because it was literally illegal to sell in some countries and was making some of their customers ill, THEN they carried out a stage 1 double blind test which is only suitable to assess whether a more comprehensive test is even worth bothering with (and the results were so unimpressive that they barely warranted the bigger trial) and throughout all this were selling Alpha Brain.

Let me make this very clear: A man who barely scraped through high school and has literally no formal education in biology or chemistry, and a man who has absolutely no formal qualifications in biology or chemistry who changed his name as a result of his drug use, got together and read some papers on completely unrelated studies on the efficacy of certain substances when used in VERY specific contexts, papers that they are literally not qualified to fully understand or interpret, and made completely baseless, ignorant (I mean that literally, not as a derogatory remark) extrapolations and assumptions about them and then sold them to the public. Then some of their customers started reporting ill effects from this mix (a mix which is illegal in many countries because it doesn't meet safety standards set by actual professionals) so they kept changing the formula, effectively experimenting on their own customers. After all this they did a very basic test just to establish whether it was even financially viable to bother with a proper test (which they still haven't done).

Each to their own, just understand that if you still buy into Alpha Brain based on the above then ironically you really do need brain pills."

http://www.reddit.com/r/joerogan2/co..._onnit_at_058/

He's not selling vitamin C. It's some creepy concoction.


LOL (once again) at this study:

https://www.onnit.com/files/Onnit_Al...n_Clinical.pdf
Just a few points.

1) All the ingredients are individual FDA approved in the US. So if you have an issue with safety it is more a governmental regulation issue than anything else.
2) Rogan did not creative the formula nor do I think he owns the company. It sounds like he is an investor.
3) The study was only 16 people so regardless of the results it would warrant a second study. If the results were one sided on either perspective the results wouldn't have enough people to carry weight.
4) They have two doctors that endorse the product on their website.

Don't get me wrong I wouldn't recommend the stuff or buy it for myself. That being said, the supplement industry is designed so the onus is on the consumer. Onnit is not doing anything different than any other supplement company. They find studies that support their claims for each individual ingredient and make a product based on that. Supplements are not held to the same standards as the medical industry.


That being said, you can find a study to pretty much prove anything. Showing supplements work should have an overwhelming amount of research and support...which guess what a small handful of supplements actually so. 95% of the industry has limited studies with no proof they have positive results.

With any supplement you should do your research and determine if the limited research is enough to satisfy you.

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Old 07-17-2014, 12:37 PM   #503
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Joe is a part owner and he is buddies with Aubrey Marcus, who is often on Joe's podcast.

As for FDA approval, that is nonsense. Percocet is FDA-approved. Do you want it in a supplement?

They made sure not to have any Alpha Brain commercials when Sam Harris was on.

If you are ethical, you do the studies before you sell the product. Especially when the original formula (allegedly) made people sick.

And this is the problem with Rogan. It's not that his comedy sucks or his UFC commentary sucks, etc. To each his own, I guess. The real problem is his using his fans as marks. And he has such a cult of personality going that he gets away with it. It should be a lesson is manipulation, but it appears to be lost on a lot of people.


Last edited by RacerX; 07-17-2014 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:08 PM   #504
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Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Joe is a part owner and he is buddies with Aubrey Marcus, who is often on Joe's podcast.

As for FDA approval, that is nonsense. Percocet is FDA-approved. Do you want it in a supplement?
And Vitamin C is FDA is approved would to take that? The point is you're saying they didn't test the ingredients for safety. But your government claims these ingredients are safe for consumption. If you feel the ingredients are too dangerous for human consumption your problem about safety is with FDA not Onnit. Ultimately even if a drug/ingredients is approved by FDA any consumer should do their homework first and consume what their comfortable with.

Quote:

They made sure not to have any Alpha Brain commercials when Sam Harris was on.
And they did them when Neil Degrasse Tyson was on and also sponsored Star Talk. They also had the advertisements with Ronda Patrick on (someone with more knowledge of supplements than Sam Harris).



Quote:
If you are ethical, you do the studies before you sell the product. Especially when the original formula (allegedly) made people sick.

And this is the problem with Rogan. It's not that his comedy sucks or his UFC commentary sucks, etc. To each his own, I guess. The real problem is his using his fans as marks. And he has such a cult of personality going that he gets away with it. It should be a lesson is manipulation, but it appears to be lost on a lot of people.

The thing is there is studies on each individual ingredients that validate their claims. It is not enough to comfort me but it may for others. It also doesn't mean the ingredients work synergisticly (made up word sorry).

But don't the fans have some responsibility? For two years before he talked about AlphaBrain he prefaced it that it was a controversial supplement, some people think its a placebo and people should do their home work first. Onnit hired a representative in Joe Rogan's message board to answer Rogan's fans concerns. Been two or three years and this representative is still in this message board responding to constant hostile questions.

On top of Onnit spending over $100,000 to facilitate a study on the product. A study that if the regardless of the results will be released.

So no I don't think Rogan is purposely duping is fans or using them as marks. I am perfectly aware of the controversies of the product entirely based on comments Rogan has made on the podcast.

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Old 07-17-2014, 10:48 PM   #505
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Originally Posted by Trolloc View Post
And Vitamin C is FDA is approved would to take that? The point is you're saying they didn't test the ingredients for safety. But your government claims these ingredients are safe for consumption. If you feel the ingredients are too dangerous for human consumption your problem about safety is with FDA not Onnit. Ultimately even if a drug/ingredients is approved by FDA any consumer should do their homework first and consume what their comfortable with.



And they did them when Neil Degrasse Tyson was on and also sponsored Star Talk. They also had the advertisements with Ronda Patrick on (someone with more knowledge of supplements than Sam Harris).






The thing is there is studies on each individual ingredients that validate their claims. It is not enough to comfort me but it may for others. It also doesn't mean the ingredients work synergisticly (made up word sorry).

But don't the fans have some responsibility? For two years before he talked about AlphaBrain he prefaced it that it was a controversial supplement, some people think its a placebo and people should do their home work first. Onnit hired a representative in Joe Rogan's message board to answer Rogan's fans concerns. Been two or three years and this representative is still in this message board responding to constant hostile questions.

On top of Onnit spending over $100,000 to facilitate a study on the product. A study that if the regardless of the results will be released.

So no I don't think Rogan is purposely duping is fans or using them as marks. I am perfectly aware of the controversies of the product entirely based on comments Rogan has made on the podcast.
My point is you don't know what FDA approval means. Vitamin C is just that a vitamin, not some formula concocted my Aubrey Marcus's secret scientists. A formula they had to change and one without proof of efficacy.

And LMAO at their scientific adviser on the Rogan board. He gets owned on the regular. And remember this:

?

You don't, by chance, have a free lifetime supply of Onnit products do you?

And yes, synergistically is a word. You remind me of Joe trying to read scientific studies (see the podcasts with Rhonda Patrick, Ph.D.)

And working synergistically could actually be a problem. But hey, lets mix a bunch of shit together and see what happens to our guinea pigs . . . errr, I mean customers.

"The current formulation of Alpha Brain uses mostly ingredients that are recognized as safe by the FDA. Combined, there is no way of knowing whether effects can be magnified or become dangerous. However, an overview of each ingredient and the dose can help one understand potential Alpha Brain side effects."

http://www.purenootropics.net/alpha-...full-analysis/

And that's why you do the studies (usually with more than 17 guinea pigs).

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Old 07-18-2014, 04:17 AM   #506
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Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
My point is you don't know what FDA approval means. Vitamin C is just that a vitamin, not some formula concocted my Aubrey Marcus's secret scientists. A formula they had to change and one without proof of efficacy.

And LMAO at their scientific adviser on the Rogan board. He gets owned on the regular. And remember this:

?

You don't, by chance, have a free lifetime supply of Onnit products do you?

And yes, synergistically is a word. You remind me of Joe trying to read scientific studies (see the podcasts with Rhonda Patrick, Ph.D.)

And working synergistically could actually be a problem. But hey, lets mix a bunch of shit together and see what happens to our guinea pigs . . . errr, I mean customers.

"The current formulation of Alpha Brain uses mostly ingredients that are recognized as safe by the FDA. Combined, there is no way of knowing whether effects can be magnified or become dangerous. However, an overview of each ingredient and the dose can help one understand potential Alpha Brain side effects."

http://www.purenootropics.net/alpha-...full-analysis/

And that's why you do the studies (usually with more than 17 guinea pigs).
LOL did you read that link you provided.

Quote:
In general, Alpha Brain should be recognized as safe, but it will always vary depending on the individual. Much respect must go to Onnit Labs for providing the formula for anyone interested in the exact doses and ingredients.

Most of the supplement and nootropic industry does not do this to the detriment of users and the community. Onnit has been more than forthcoming about the ingredients while trying to balance the business aspects of a unique blend.
Quote:
The current formulation of Alpha Brain uses mostly ingredients that are recognized as safe by the FDA. Combined, there is no way of knowing whether effects can be magnified or become dangerous. However, an overview of each ingredient and the dose can help one understand potential Alpha Brain side effects.
That's pretty much my whole point there.

Thanks for the info.

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Old 07-18-2014, 12:25 PM   #507
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Originally Posted by Trolloc View Post
LOL did you read that link you provided.





That's pretty much my whole point there.

Thanks for the info.
Actually, I did read it. And it's someone who is not against Alpha Brain pointing out that even though you may have tested individual ingredients, it doesn't mean they work or are safe together.

And I think your point should be a little better than "Hey, Joe's product won't make you sick", especially when there were reports that AB has in the past. I expect a little more.

I'm still waiting for the study the promised (not the one with fewer than 20 people).

I just hope they are a little more honest with these studies than they were when Joe Rogan was questioning everything.

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Old 07-18-2014, 03:38 PM   #508
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The dude was a drunk asshole, joe put him in his place.

now on the topic of ONNIT

most of it IMO is smoke, mirrors and snake oil

apparently shroomtech actually works but I haven't tried anything sold by onnit

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