Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums

Go Back   Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Fight Discussion > UFC Discussion

UFC Discussion Discuss UFC, former WEC and former Pride events here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-15-2014, 09:40 AM   #31
brawlnsprawl

Blue Belt
 
brawlnsprawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cooliox View Post
if you think going for subs is what defines a 'black belt' in bjj, you're an idiot.
Agreed

brawlnsprawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 09:41 AM   #32
brawlnsprawl

Blue Belt
 
brawlnsprawl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 738
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by campbecc View Post
I'm pretty sure Ed O'neil has been training BJJ for decades and has a Gracie black belt. He's nothing like Garcia but he's not the best example of a McDojo black belt either.

brawlnsprawl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 09:43 AM   #33
Taric

Black Belt
 
Taric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 7,399
vCash: 500
I'd take the opportunity to learn from Al Bundy in a heart beat. You ever hear him talk about BJJ? He's extremely knowledgeable and enthusiastic about the art.

Taric is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 10:14 AM   #34
stav

Brown Belt
 
stav's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 3,003
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocarey2 View Post
If we completely ignore mma for a second and just look at bjj by itself we see a range of ablities at each grade, and this range of abilities is no more pronounced than at black belt. There are club level black belts who can beat most everyone at their club and then their are increments of ability all the way up to the elite level black belt who is competing for world medals etc. Even if the criteria for promotion could somehow be made universal you would still have this wide range of abilities because some people are simply better than others. Some have been black belts for longer and as anyone in martial arts knows, the black belt is far from the end of your learning in the martial art.

Some people respond better to stimulus than others, resulting in faster learning, so even if they have spent relatively similar number of hours on the mat as another they can be drastically better than that other person even if both of them have reached the rank of black belt.

Furthermore one might have a better coach, or a better coaching structure and subsequently will be better for that than if he had spent the same time with a less competent coach.

This doesn't even take into account all the other aspects such as strength speed stamina etc (or collectively, athletic ability). The final distinction comes when we introduce this skill into an MMA setting. One style that is more effective in pure BJJ may be less effective than another when that skill set is used in an MMA environment, further creating a range of abilities and applicabilities of different black belts skill set.

The final point I will make is that it is a loaded statement to say Werdum is more dangerous on the ground. Now I will agree that he is more of a submission threat than Cain, but does that make him dangerous overall. Under the criteria of danger of being submitted, yes. Under the criteria of danger of having your face turned into a hamburger, No. So on top of all the different areas which allow room for diversity in skill level among black belts, we also have a diverse choice of criteria by which we judge their effectiveness in an MMA setting, all bringing us to the conclusion that Royce Gracie so eloquently gave us all those years ago. A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. You have to cover the rest
yep

BJJ is no diffrent to any other athletic task.

I can train football and compete for 15+ years making me a "black belt level" in my desired sport but i will never be as good as Messi or any top grade Pro footballer.

Black belt signifies a level of proficiency and understanding.

When applied in a competitive level the level of skill between black belts could be as vast as a semi pro footballer playing in a second division national league all the way to a super stars like Ronaldo.

__________________
Fedor quote number 1 created my Stav

Fedor doesn't need to walk on Water (22/08/07)

"Oh my goodness!! Did you see that?? He ran up the wall like a Ninja!!" Bonnar WEC 53
stav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 10:36 AM   #35
Mr Boogaloo

Silver Belt
 
Mr Boogaloo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: London
Posts: 10,013
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocarey2 View Post
If we completely ignore mma for a second and just look at bjj by itself we see a range of ablities at each grade, and this range of abilities is no more pronounced than at black belt. There are club level black belts who can beat most everyone at their club and then their are increments of ability all the way up to the elite level black belt who is competing for world medals etc. Even if the criteria for promotion could somehow be made universal you would still have this wide range of abilities because some people are simply better than others. Some have been black belts for longer and as anyone in martial arts knows, the black belt is far from the end of your learning in the martial art.

Some people respond better to stimulus than others, resulting in faster learning, so even if they have spent relatively similar number of hours on the mat as another they can be drastically better than that other person even if both of them have reached the rank of black belt.

Furthermore one might have a better coach, or a better coaching structure and subsequently will be better for that than if he had spent the same time with a less competent coach.

This doesn't even take into account all the other aspects such as strength speed stamina etc (or collectively, athletic ability). The final distinction comes when we introduce this skill into an MMA setting. One style that is more effective in pure BJJ may be less effective than another when that skill set is used in an MMA environment, further creating a range of abilities and applicabilities of different black belts skill set.

The final point I will make is that it is a loaded statement to say Werdum is more dangerous on the ground. Now I will agree that he is more of a submission threat than Cain, but does that make him dangerous overall. Under the criteria of danger of being submitted, yes. Under the criteria of danger of having your face turned into a hamburger, No. So on top of all the different areas which allow room for diversity in skill level among black belts, we also have a diverse choice of criteria by which we judge their effectiveness in an MMA setting, all bringing us to the conclusion that Royce Gracie so eloquently gave us all those years ago. A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. You have to cover the rest
good read, yes. do you train at an old school gracie jj place?

__________________
'I really loved the fighting, and the extreme cage they use. Its just so extreme and awesome. '
Mr Boogaloo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 12:10 PM   #36
Alejo

White Belt
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 82
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouchPro View Post
Training BJJ and calling yourself a fighter is like playing Mario Cart and calling yourself a racer.
You know, there is this thing called the UFC, which stands for Ultimate FIGHTING Championship, where 20 years ago, a pure BJJ Practitioner beat the shit out of everybody, proving that there's a lot more to fighting than just trowing punches and kicks.

You might wanna check that out.

Alejo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 12:21 PM   #37
Uncommon Valor
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Walking the Earth like Caine in "Kung Fu"
Posts: 5,312
vCash: 430
Quote:
Originally Posted by CouchPro View Post
Training BJJ and calling yourself a fighter is like playing Mario Cart and calling yourself a racer.
Sounds like something Sonnen would say.

__________________
Rich Clementi > Anthony Johnson > Phil Davis > Alexander Gustafsson > Cyrille Diabaté > Chad Griggs > Valentijn Overeem > Randy Couture > James Toney > Evander Holyfield > Larry Holmes > Muhammad Ali
Uncommon Valor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 01:43 PM   #38
computer fogie
The Ferrari
 
computer fogie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Germany via US
Posts: 20,760
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merman View Post
You know Mir is one of the best HW MMA submission fighters and a BB. Did you see his video talking about rolling with D. Maia?
And then the video of Maia rolling with Marcelo.

computer fogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 02:02 PM   #39
Bigz132

Orange Belt
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taric View Post
Belt level is based completely on knowledge of the art. It's about your ability to teach others below your level.

Skill level is an extremely subjective thing considering how much of it has to do with athleticism.
This
I train karate (SKK) currently a brown belt but in a fight I could beat plenty of black belts who are less athletic(slow old terrible on ground etc) but in terms of knowledge I am not as proficient. I also know of several lower rank students where I train who could kick my ass but aren't as knowledgeable about the style of karate we train in.

I assume that this is true for all martial arts

Bigz132 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-15-2014, 02:03 PM   #40
SCADA
 
SCADA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Rollin on Easy Street...
Posts: 20,072
vCash: 1350
Belts don't mean shit in MMA....

Pro fighters are pro fighters.....belts are to hold up your pants

__________________
So I'd say the ball's in your court, but the truth is your balls are in my fist. Now I apologize if that image is too pansy for you, but I'm comfortable enough with my manhood to put it out there.
SCADA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Latest Threads



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 AM.

Sherdog.com Forum Rules Clear Cookies Social Groups Lost Password
Contact Us - Sherdog Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices

Skin made by Alex. © iStyles.uni.cc Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
forums.sherdog.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.
monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"