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Old 06-15-2014, 02:05 AM   #821
nixkid

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Originally Posted by Mayor View Post
Here, let me help. I've bolded the positive things Ali did. There are a lot of neutral things in the description as well (e.g. "When the flyweights move off the fence ... both men land hard hooks in a close exchange...). If you remove the neutral things, you'll see the bolded comprises roughly half of the narrative, perhaps more. It was a close fight. Ignore Rogan next time.
And yet everyone on Sherdog's play-by-play scored it 50-45. I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make. That the wording of the play-by-play suggests that the fight was close despite the fact that the people writing the play-by-play scored it 50-45. Maybe its just worded poorly. I think you can get more value out of how they actually scored the fight than how they described it. Its hard to write about 50 strikes landing in one paragraph.

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Old 06-15-2014, 02:05 AM   #822
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Its hard to gauge how much damage a punch to the face does. A fighter might just have a really good chin and can walk through hard punches (doesn't mean his opponent isn't scoring). Another fighter might cut easily and show "damage" even though his opponent wasn't landing hard at all. Its not an exact science but we know strikes to the head, body, and legs can end fights (with head strikes being the most damaging). We also know that pressing someone up against the cage does ZERO damage. So if one guy is doing something that does damage and another guy is doing something that doesn't, it pretty easy to judge the round. Thats why virtually everyone scored the fight 50-45 (judges, media, announcers, essentially everyone). Its really that simple. You're over analyzing it.
I think I'm analyzing it in a very reasonable way, given MMA scoring criteria. You can't score a fight at 125 the same way as a HW fight if the 125'er isn't doing the same damage with his strikes. Shit, Ali's attempted toss when MM screamed in pain was probably the most damage dealt in the entire fight. Does anyone rationally dispute that?

MM won on effective striking, but he didn't score much for damage, and he lost on Octagon control. I weighed the striking so heavily as to give him the win overall, but it's not unreasonable to say it was close.

The media and judges just overvalue weak strikes. And what's funny is how fans tend to hate that when MW or above score with weak strikes (Rory won with just a jab; Chael's GnP didn't do any damage; Lyoto's counter-striking was point-fighting, etc.), but then as soon as the little guys land non-fight-ending strikes, the fans want those to be scored heavily. It's rather hypocritical, frankly.

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Old 06-15-2014, 02:06 AM   #823
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Originally Posted by nixkid View Post
And yet everyone on Sherdog's play-by-play scored it 50-45. I'm not even sure what point you are trying to make. That the wording of the play-by-play suggests that the fight was close despite the fact that the people writing the play-by-play scored it 50-45. Maybe its just worded poorly. I think you can get more value out of how they actually scored the fight than how they described it. Its hard to write about 50 strikes landing in one paragraph.
I think those rounds could have just as easily been 10 - 10, and I've stated my case based on Octagon control, damage, and even the narrative of the fight; meanwhile, nobody has stated a case to the contrary with any support other than "other people scored the fight this way." All of a sudden we are making appeals to authority based on MMA's notoriously shitty judging instead of rational conversation about the scoring criteria applied to how the fight unfolded.

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Old 06-15-2014, 02:09 AM   #824
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Originally Posted by Mayor View Post
I think I'm analyzing it in a very reasonable way, given MMA scoring criteria. You can't score a fight at 125 the same way as a HW fight if the 125'er isn't doing the same damage with his strikes. Shit, Ali's attempted toss when MM screamed in pain was probably the most damage dealt in the entire fight. Does anyone rationally dispute that?

MM won on effective striking, but he didn't score much for damage, and he lost on Octagon control. I weighed the striking so heavily as to give him the win overall, but it's not unreasonable to say it was close.

The media and judges just overvalue weak strikes. And what's funny is how fans tend to hate that when MW or above score with weak strikes (Rory won with just a jab; Chael's GnP didn't do any damage; Lyoto's counter-striking was point-fighting, etc.), but then as soon as the little guys land non-fight-ending strikes, the fans want those to be scored heavily. It's rather hypocritical, frankly.
Rory won with a jab because his opponent didn't land anything. It isn't just about what the winning fighter does, it's also about what his opponent does. Same with Lyoto..his counter striking can win if he avoids getting hit while doing enough to show that he is outstriking his opponent.

MM won because he was doing more than Ali and he did it every round. Period.

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Old 06-15-2014, 02:14 AM   #825
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Originally Posted by Mayor View Post
I think those rounds could have just as easily been 10 - 10, and I've stated my case based on Octagon control, damage, and even the narrative of the fight; meanwhile, nobody has stated a case to the contrary with any support other than "other people scored the fight this way." All of a sudden we are making appeals to authority based on MMA's notoriously shitty judging instead of rational conversation about the scoring criteria applied to how the fight unfolded.
If everyone sees a fight as 50-45 except for you then the problem is likely you. You haven't proven out except that you score wall and stall more favorably than most people who watch MMA.

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