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Old 08-07-2014, 02:31 PM   #61
Aasgaard

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SODACKER View Post
The fact that jones has like 8 title defenses and only one was against a 20 something would disagree with that argument.
If I'm not mistaken, every current UFC champ except Cain is in his/her 20's. So, yes, becoming young (wo)man's game.

Edit: I was wrong. Hendricks is 30.

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Old 08-07-2014, 02:31 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Phisher View Post
The poster that I responded posited age as the only relevant factor in Gustafsson's ability to give Jones a tough fight, and I responded in kind.

This entire line of reasoning, which is repeated ad nauseum on this forum, is shit. DC is considered to a legitimate threat to Jones, yet he's in his mid-30s and hasn't fought anybody under the age of 30 since he started his Strikeforce run.
Ah. Well in that case, yeah, I agree. I believe that Gus gave Jones fits mostly due to style alone; I find it strange that many seem to think of Gus's frame and youth as the reasons why Jones looked so human, but never his excellent striking.

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Old 08-07-2014, 02:33 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Phisher View Post
Shogun, Bader and O'Brien were in their 20s when they fought Jones. Where were the problems?
I'm not discounting Jones. I think he's best fighter in the world and has already surpassed Anderson Silva.

That said, Shogun's issues are well known. He may as well had been 40 years old in that fight. Not to mention, he was supposedly injured yet again going in.

With Bader and O'Brien, Jones was simply the better fight.

I'm not saying age makes all of the difference and is the reason why Jones is dominating but it's definitely a factor. He's been lucky to fight a lot of legends but they were legends in their 30s and on the downswing.

Gus is nearly the same age, height and reach and he gaves Jones a lot of problems. I think if Jones had fought a lot of guys with the same gifts, he wouldn't have had nearly as a successful run.

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Old 08-07-2014, 02:33 PM   #64
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Wand4Life >>> Liddell4Life

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Old 08-07-2014, 02:46 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by D1wrestla View Post
Are you really trying to argue that there isn't a lot of good fighters at 205? Because I gaurontee you were not saying that before jones beat them all.
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Right now there's about 6-8 guys worth watching at 205, which is pathetic. Almost as bad as heavyweight.

I don't know what point you're trying to make by suggesting that I wasn't saying that before Jones "beat them all"--even if that were accurate, the division is much weaker now than it was back in 2011 when Jones became champ.

But in any event, your juvenile attempt to declare what my opinions were four years ago is wrong. For example, prior to Jones-Bader, I made this post arguing that 205 was nowhere near 155 in terms of depth:

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Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
People who think the LHW division can compete with the LW division are only looking at the top 20 fighters or so. There's a whole life to the LW division beyond that, but at LHW you start seeing guys like Igor Pokrajac.
http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/48294557-post21.html

And in 2010 I wrote:

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Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
LHW has been overrated for years. Shogun and Machida are great fighters, but aside from that some the top UFC LHWs are guys like Rashad and Forrest. I don't know if Rashad could beat Sonnen even with his size advantage.

Let's not forget that it wasn't long ago that Keith Jardine was considered a borderline top 5 LHW, yet we're supposed to pretend the division is somehow amazing.
http://forums.sherdog.com/forums/38430629-post9.html

So, while my assessment of a potential Sonnen-Evans bout might have missed the mark, it's also pretty clear that, contrary to whatever inane argument you were trying to make, I was indeed of the view that there were not a lot of good fighters at 205 long before "Bones" ever sniffed UFC gold.

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Old 08-07-2014, 02:47 PM   #66
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I am far from being a Jones fan, but this is a ridiculous thread.

Jones is great, deal with it.

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Old 08-07-2014, 03:12 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Zanmato View Post
i am bored and just wanted to work out approximately the historical peak age for the best fighters

heavyweight

mark coleman - 33
maurice smith - 36
randy couture - 34
bas rutten - 34
kevin randleman - 28
(randy couture)
josh barnett - 25
ricco rodriguez - 25
tim sylvia - 27
frank mir - 25
andre arloski - 26
(andre arlovski)
(tim sylvia)
(randy couture)
antonio rodrigo nogeuira - 32
brock lesnar - 31
(frank mir)
shane carwin - 35
cain velasquez - 28
junior dos santos - 27
(cain velasquez)

15 different champions, average age to nearest year: 30



light heavyweight

frank shamrock - 25
tito ortiz - 25
randy couture - 40
(randy couture)
vitor belfort -27
(randy couture)
chuck liddell - 36
quinton jackson - 29
forrest griffin - 28
rashad evans - 29
lyoto machida - 31
mauricio rua - 28
jon jones - 24

11 different champions, average age to nearest year: 29



middlweight


dave menne - 27
maurilo bustamante - 36
evan tanner - 34
rich franklin - 31
anderson silva - 31
chris weidman - 29

6 different champions, average age to nearest year: 31



welterweight


pat miletich - 32
carlos newton - 25
matt hughes - 28
b.j. penn - 26
(matt hughes)
georges st pierre - 26
matt serra - 33
(georges st pierre)
(georges st pierre)
carlos condit - 28
johnny hendricks - 31

8 different champions, average age to nearest year: 29



lightweight


jens pulver - 26
sean sherk - 33
b.j. penn - 30
frankie edgar - 29
benson henderson - 29
anthony pettis - 26

6 different champions, average age to nearest year: 29



featherweight

jose aldo - 24

1 champion, average age: 24

bantamweight


dominick cruz - 26
renan barao - 25
(renan barao)
t.j. dillashaw - 28

3 different champions, average age to nearest year: 26



flyweight


demetrious johnson - 26

1 champion, average age: 26



women's bantamweight

ronda rousey - 26

1 champion, average age: 26



(33+36+34+34+28+25+25+27+25+26+32+31+35+ 28+27+25+25+40+27+36+29+28+29+31+28+24+2 7+36+34+31+31+29+32+25+28+26+26+33+28+31 +26+33+30+29+29+26+24+26+25+28+26+26)/52 = overall champion average age of 29


so... historically all the best fighters are around, or nearly 30, so i don't really know why he has to fight guys that are early to mid 20s to be considered legit... and i'm not even a fan of jones!
This post deserves to be commended. Thx for the info.

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