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Old 07-10-2014, 02:44 AM   #11
Zeta Reticuli

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He like the two scoop rice extra macaroni

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Old 07-10-2014, 03:01 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by Buri View Post
I agree, I genuinely like BJ too; as for Penn - coulda, shoulda, woulda. If he had been with a proper camp who knows what his last few years would have looked like.
I dunno man I think it has more to do with

1 age

2 having a family and kids

3 years of insane damage on his body

I think it was after the diego sanchez fight he said something like " as I get older I tell myself this is the last one, what the hell am I doing to myself"


He had some amazing fights. He was bored and wanted to fight again. Thats what bj does, but his decline juxtaposed with the rise of the new fighters' talent conditioning and motivation was what we saw. It was a culmination of things.


Good for him, he fought again. He should have retired immediately after KO hughes fight #3.

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Old 07-11-2014, 02:15 AM   #13
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Just to clear something up, I made two distinct statements. The latter was about BJ Penn and his possible fighting career if things had been different.

The first comment had nothing to do with any fighter.

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Old 07-11-2014, 02:37 AM   #14
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he was extremely skilled in both boxing and bjj. his talent/athleticism accentuated those and gave him crazy tdd, but he was the whole package

he stopped training serious after marinovich, was never the same fighter

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Old 07-11-2014, 02:58 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by luckyshot View Post
Just imagine if GSP never went to Jackson's, had a questionable gas tank in several fights and finished 16-11 instead of 25-2. We would all say he squandered his potential, right?

Well, BJ Penn had at least the same level of pure talent.
I think GSP showed he had more but it's not like we can prove it or anything.

Bj is one of those fighters that was amazing in some respects, but had weaknesses that became more obvious as his career lasted. Much of it was mental and it likely wouldn't have made a difference if he had a different camp. Like having an iron chin, some things a fighter just has or doesn't. BJ had balls of steel, but he never had heart and no training camp could have coached him into having it. You have it or you don't and BJ didn't.

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Old 07-11-2014, 03:29 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeta Reticuli View Post
He like the two scoop rice extra macaroni
Kalua pig, brah

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Old 07-11-2014, 04:09 AM   #17
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He never could put his striking together with his ground game. He was always doing one or the other. He had takedowns, but he never had the conditioning to really work and grind to get people down. So he preferred to box in his slow paced counter striking style. As a boxer he was very flat footed. Edgar made it look easy to stick and move on the guy.

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Old 07-11-2014, 04:22 AM   #18
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Penn took his training seriously when forced to drill with the Marinovich bros, but other than that he won a big fight and instead of looking at the next best in that weight, it being LW or WW, he decided those weren't good enough and wanted to take on a tough MW, and then a good LHW, instead.

He wanted to fight Wanderlei in his prime, got Gomi when he was #1, got Ludwig when he was highly touted, wanted Hughes when he was the consensus p4p #1, wanted to show Sherk he's the best in the UFC after having beat Gomi, wanted to get the WW belt back several times, etc.

Aside from his commitment to LW when he was champ, a mountain of a challenge one after another when he won or lost big, instead of a title defense, which is tough on its own. Or a step back in comp after a big loss.

His boxing did become more counter-heavy, better, but, yes, he lived largely through his talent after the mundials.

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Old 07-11-2014, 04:48 AM   #19
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In the end it is those coulda, shoulda, woulda's that keep me from putting him on the GOAT list. I am not meaning to come down on the dude, he had a warrior spirit most of his carreer, and did have amazing potential, but I can't like most of you overlook the fact that he didn't actually accomplish what he could have. Perhaps if he would have stayed at LW he would be what everybody thinks he could have, or perhaps things would have gone wrong for him. I unfortunately have to put actual accomplishments above perceived or what ifs.
He will of course always be a legend, as being a legend mostly surpasses actual ability and is a complete carreer, but as far as being in the top 5 or top ten GOAT as some people suggest, I couldn't say so. In the end he has himself to blame for it, although I don't think it really matters a whole lot because he will of course still be remembered fondly and as a warrrior, so a lot of it is kind of semantics.

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Old 07-11-2014, 05:03 AM   #20
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Edit.
nvm

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