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Old 04-12-2014, 11:40 PM   #101
callofdutyNBA

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i dont mind it, its pretty bad sometimes but most of the time i dont mind it.

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Old 04-12-2014, 11:44 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by MusterX View Post
Depends on what you mean by lay and pray, if the guy on top or bottom, whichever, is working for better position, subs, escapes, strikes etc. then that isn't lay and pray. That's called grappling and its part of MMA.
This. A lot of fighters get called LNPers even tho they pass guard and put in good GNP. Carmont is a great example of an active ground fighter.

Lnp fighters are content to chill in guard and stall, knowing they'll win the round.

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Old 04-12-2014, 11:50 PM   #103
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The problem is in the judging. If the guy on top passes guard and gets to mount/side control then that to me is not lay and pray, but settling in someones guard and doing nothing is not winning a fight, and should be scored as such. Guard is a neutral position, and should be scored that way. Good grappling can be at least as entertaining as striking (joe lauzon, werdum and jacare style) but what shields and askren do is not grappling, its stalling

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Old 04-12-2014, 11:52 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by muaythaibeast View Post
The problem is in the judging. If the guy on top passes guard and gets to mount/side control then that to me is not lay and pray, but settling in someones guard and doing nothing is not winning a fight, and should be scored as such. Guard is a neutral position, and should be scored that way. Good grappling can be at least as entertaining as striking (joe lauzon, werdum and jacare style) but what shields and askren do is not grappling, its stalling
guard may be considered a neutral position in jiu jitsu but no way is guard a neutral position in MMA.

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Old 04-12-2014, 11:54 PM   #105
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Holding back control is a much bigger problem at this point.
I cannot imagine any fix for that. It is such a dominant position that one cannot reasonably expect the ref to intervene. However, the back mount with hooks ends as a 10-9 far more off than in a submission win, unless the fighter in inferior position has already been rocked. When a grappler gets the back of his opponent early in the round, I usually have pretty good idea about what the next five minutes will entail.

I think I will turn it into a drinking game next time. A shot of gin every time Joe Rogan:
a. Describes how a body triangle makes it hard to breathe (2 shots if he references Ivan Salaverry).
b. Talks about how the gloves make it hard to sink in a choke.
c. Describes a futile choke attempt as "deep".

I am not really picking on Rogan. He is trying to pass the time as well.

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Old 04-12-2014, 11:57 PM   #106
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I always found GSP's lay & pray entertaining, just because it was GSP. He made his lay & pray fun to watch with how smooth his ground game was.

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Old 04-13-2014, 12:01 AM   #107
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Define Lay and Pray. Some people think that any exchange on the ground that isn't taking place at a rapid pace is Lay and Pray. As long as the fighters are making an effort to pass/GNP or retain guard, sweep, or submit I have no problem with it. It's when the fighters have zero neither fighter has any skills beyond laying there that it's annoying. Or when their gassed out and do literally nothing.

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Old 04-13-2014, 12:04 AM   #108
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The majority of the time it's the guy on the bottom. They hold onto the guy on top and stare at the ref until there's a stand up. Remove ref stand ups, and they'll have no other choice but to find a way to get back watch.


Watch DHK vs. Siyar for an example of this.

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Old 04-13-2014, 12:07 AM   #109
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It's lame, they need to put less value on takedowns and wrestling in general.

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