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Old 05-11-2014, 10:08 PM   #41
Steve08

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Originally Posted by Jukai View Post
To score points, you need to make what my sensei would call "skin contact" as in make contact with your opponent but not go THROUGH your opponent.
So in that first exchange from 0:29 to 0:32, do they both score-- Wiebe with his low kick and Machida with the body shot?
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Originally Posted by Jukai
it breeds fighters that have EXCELLENT timing and distance, because you CANNOT GET HIT.
Hence why I find it at least curious that Machida failed to properly re-establish distance after kneeing Shogun's guts... ah, well.

As an aside, would you describe Machida's achievements in Shotokan as worthy of him being called a world-class karateka, or no?

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Old 05-11-2014, 10:17 PM   #42
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Not digging Sexy's new hairstyle
nah, hes going back to his korean roots:


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Old 05-11-2014, 10:20 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Steve08 View Post
So in that first exchange from 0:29 to 0:32, do they both score-- Wiebe with his low kick and Machida with the body shot?
That was Machida with the low kick + body shot combo and both scored before Weibe could get HIS shot off, hence Lyoto got the point.

Quote:
Hence why I find it at least curious that Machida failed to properly re-establish distance after kneeing Shogun's guts... ah, well.
I mean... Shogun has excellent timing, man. Karatekas aren't infallible. Shotokan fighters develop amazing distance and timing but that doesn't mean Muay Thai and Boxers can't develop the same their own way.

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As an aside, would you describe Machida's achievements in Shotokan as worthy of him being called a world-class karateka, or no?
Yeah, definitely. He's a Pan American gold medalist, a Brazillian Karate gold medalist... and while he never won a medal in any world competitions, he was competitive in them.
In terms of Karate, he is nowhere near as good as Chinzo though. Chinzo took silver in the 2006 Gichin World Cup, losing to the legendary Koji Ogata. He was the best Karateka in Brazil for nearly a decade.

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Old 05-11-2014, 10:25 PM   #44
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Old 05-11-2014, 10:30 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Jukai View Post
That was Machida with the low kick + body shot combo and both scored before Weibe could get HIS shot off, hence Lyoto got the point.


I mean... Shogun has excellent timing, man. Karatekas aren't infallible. Shotokan fighters develop amazing distance and timing but that doesn't mean Muay Thai and Boxers can't develop the same their own way.



Yeah, definitely. He's a Pan American gold medalist, a Brazillian Karate gold medalist... and while he never won a medal in any world competitions, he was competitive in them.
In terms of Karate, he is nowhere near as good as Chinzo though. Chinzo took silver in the 2006 Gichin World Cup, losing to the legendary Koji Ogata. He was the best Karateka in Brazil for nearly a decade.
That's very interesting, I want to look up some more of Chinzo but if Lyoto isn't as good of a Karateka as Chinzo then Chinzo isn't as good a mixed martial artist as Lyoto. lol

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Old 05-11-2014, 10:35 PM   #46
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That's very interesting, I want to look up some more of Chinzo but if Lyoto isn't as good of a Karateka as Chinzo then Chinzo isn't as good a mixed martial artist as Lyoto. lol
Yup, exactly. While Chinzo was training to be the best Karateka in Brazil, Machida was training tireless on his Jujitsu, on his catch and freestyle wrestling, on his Judo, on his sumo... Machida's best asset isn't his Karate timing or explosiveness, but the fact that it's almost impossible to take him down because of all the time he has spent training his wrestling and grappling.

Chinzo's last MMA outing showed that while he is real good on his feet and has impressive timing, his weakness is still fighting off wrestlers.

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Old 05-11-2014, 10:38 PM   #47
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That's very interesting, I want to look up some more of Chinzo but if Lyoto isn't as good of a Karateka as Chinzo then Chinzo isn't as good a mixed martial artist as Lyoto. lol
He definitely isn't. You have to wonder if one being better than the other necessitates that duality, though. Like, Machida being better at mma than Chinzo meant he had to be a worse karateka, because you can't have your cake and eat it too, y'know?
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Originally Posted by Jukai
That was Machida with the low kick + body shot combo and both scored before Weibe could get HIS shot off, hence Lyoto got the point.
Interesting, but as far as I can tell, Wiebe landed his kick first so why was that not scored..? Maybe I'm just not seeing something... or was that a feint?

Regardless, this has been quite informative. And people say there are no productive discussions on sherdog! haha...

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Old 05-11-2014, 10:45 PM   #48
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?Interesting, but as far as I can tell, Wiebe landed his kick first so why was that not scored..? Maybe I'm just not seeing something... or was that a feint?

Regardless, this has been quite informative. And people say there are no productive discussions on sherdog! haha...
Shawn didn't throw a single kick in that match, so I think you have them mixed up, buddy. Machida's kick at the end of the match landed first and won him the fight.

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Old 05-11-2014, 10:52 PM   #49
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Shawn didn't throw a single kick in that match, so I think you have them mixed up, buddy.
Shit, I guess you're right.

edit: I rewatched the video (particularly the section where the ref discusses the scoring with Machida) and realized that I was, indeed, on crack. Sorry. Carry on.

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