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Old 12-27-2013, 01:31 AM   #31
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This is too much. The rankings in the UFC are completely meaningless, what purpose would creating such a system do other than confuse the fans with formulas and statistics?

The rankings are strictly so that casual fans can have an understanding of a fighters level of skill, even if they don't know exactly who they are. That doesn't apply to anybody here because we already know all the fighters.

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Old 12-27-2013, 02:02 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by spid3yo View Post
This is too much. The rankings in the UFC are completely meaningless, what purpose would creating such a system do other than confuse the fans with formulas and statistics?

The rankings are strictly so that casual fans can have an understanding of a fighters level of skill, even if they don't know exactly who they are. That doesn't apply to anybody here because we already know all the fighters.
Excellent!
Now that I donít need to worry about you, I can concentrate on helping casual fans.
Those week minded, uninformed noobs

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Old 12-27-2013, 09:01 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by spid3yo View Post
This is too much. The rankings in the UFC are completely meaningless, what purpose would creating such a system do other than confuse the fans with formulas and statistics?

The rankings are strictly so that casual fans can have an understanding of a fighters level of skill, even if they don't know exactly who they are. That doesn't apply to anybody here because we already know all the fighters.
generally speaking, i can't stand the argument that rankings are meaningless

Fighters that pop up frequently in the rankings get a lot of recognition and opportunities. In a sport that has matchmaking driven by their perceived marquee value, that is hugely significant to a fighter in their careers.

personally, that is the main reason why I look at objective ranking systems like the TS's and mma elo. For one, it helps gain a deeper understanding of where the fighters are relative to their division, for two, it sheds light on those flying under the radar...those who deserve it.

Great examples are guys like Werdum

I was so happy when he got to fight Fedor. But here on sherdog, people were writing Fedor off as not fighting top competition. On ELO, Werdum had an elite rating. ON sherdog, Werdum was ranked 7 even after his loss to JDS but the moment he left the UFC he was considered 'irrelevant' by the mma community and was off the rankings. He went on to win against Kyle and Bigfoot, (another two solid ELO wins) but because of the perceived relevance of where the fight takes place, Werdum was considered a scrub.

Now, if we would have listened to the objective ratings, a fighter who was deserving all along of bigger fights and opportunities wouldn't have been dismissed. Luckily for Werdum, Strikeforce and M1 made the fight happen for him, but how many more great fighters are there out there that don't get their due shot? While guys like Brock and Kimbo get center stage for no other reason than their market value?

Imagine if the NFL worked like that (someone else said objective ratings ruin sports, but sports like Soccer and the NFL - significantly more viewers seem to work fine)
a team makes the playoffs, let's say a boring defensive, running team without a large fanbase. They win all their games only to find another team in their place at the super bowl because the NFL didn't think enough people would watch the super bowl if the team that had earned their shot on merit were to play.

That is what happens in mma all the time and it's mostly due to the matchmaking rules, but disregarding rankings certainly helps keep this aspect of the sport more about the spectacle

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Last edited by SharkBoy; 12-27-2013 at 09:13 AM.
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Old 12-27-2013, 09:15 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by SharkBoy View Post
generally speaking, i can't stand the argument that rankings are meaningless

Fighters that pop up frequently in the rankings get a lot of recognition and opportunities. In a sport that has matchmaking driven by their perceived marquee value, that is hugely significant to a fighter in their careers.

personally, that is the main reason why I look at objective ranking systems like the TS's and mma elo. For one, it helps gain a deeper understanding of where the fighters are relative to their division, for two, it sheds light on those flying under the radar...those who deserve it.

Sure but that has nothing to do with the fact they are ranked. There is no more special opportunities or recognition that the #10 guy gets that the #11 guy doesn't.

Also rankings don't, nor should, have any bearing on matchmaking. Rankings don't sell fights, rankings don't make fights, rankings don't make fighters money. Rankings are merely a byproduct of not losing.

The only people that need "a deeper understanding of where the fighters are relative to their division" are people that don't watch many fights.

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Old 12-27-2013, 09:18 AM   #35
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Agree on all points TS, great post.

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Old 12-27-2013, 09:19 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by spid3yo View Post
This is too much. The rankings in the UFC are completely meaningless, what purpose would creating such a system do other than confuse the fans with formulas and statistics?

The rankings are strictly so that casual fans can have an understanding of a fighters level of skill, even if they don't know exactly who they are. That doesn't apply to anybody here because we already know all the fighters.
But it seems as if the casuals are buying ppvs more often than the hardcores on here it's disgusting.

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Old 12-27-2013, 10:19 AM   #37
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I didnít talk about what that specific logic should be.
We probably should be able to define minimum set of criteria for that logic.

Also, I didnít talk about what represents results, other than obvious win/loss.
What actual accomplishments should be taken into consideration.
Obviously, it should be something tangible.

Completeness and inclusiveness should also be defined. We should limit it to an acceptable level, because there is no absolute. So, should we rank 100 or 10,000 fighters?
By present-centric, I mean just looking at the results in last couple of months or couple of years.
We all have short memory and it takes an effort to dig deeper into the past.
Any thoughts on:

- minimum set of criteria for the ranking logic

- what actual accomplishments should be taken into consideration for the ranking process

- what are elements that some people use (when they create rankings), but you think they absolutely shouldn't be used.

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Old 12-27-2013, 10:49 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by spid3yo View Post
Sure but that has nothing to do with the fact they are ranked. There is no more special opportunities or recognition that the #10 guy gets that the #11 guy doesn't.
You sure about that?

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Originally Posted by spid3yo View Post
Also rankings don't, nor should, have any bearing on matchmaking. Rankings don't sell fights, rankings don't make fights, rankings don't make fighters money. Rankings are merely a byproduct of not losing.
why not? you don't think when someone has a clear ranking and the #1 and #2 guys or the #3 and#4 guys fight that that helps sell a fight? The superbowl has two teams who deserved their spot, the fact that they did is what sells the event...not hard talk between the coaches, or the team with the best cheerleaders, or who the NFL thinks would be a fan favorite exciting game

Rankings don't make fighters money? Ranking in print is recognition, recognition = more endorsements and opportunity, how does that NOT make them money

There are plenty of rankings that are far more in depth than simply being a by product of not losing

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Originally Posted by spid3yo View Post
The only people that need "a deeper understanding of where the fighters are relative to their division" are people that don't watch many fights.
or people who bet
or people who are just getting into the sport
or people who are interested in who is up and coming
or people who are just big fans of mma
or people who like statistics, like baseball stat hounds (I guess they don't watch games)

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Last edited by SharkBoy; 12-27-2013 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 12-31-2013, 10:30 AM   #39
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Imagine if the NFL worked like that (someone else said objective ratings ruin sports, but sports like Soccer and the NFL - significantly more viewers seem to work fine)
a team makes the playoffs, let's say a boring defensive, running team without a large fanbase. They win all their games only to find another team in their place at the super bowl because the NFL didn't think enough people would watch the super bowl if the team that had earned their shot on merit were to play.
The NFL doesn't use "rankings." They use standings based on a formula where everyone in their division plays the same opponents.

The rankings argument would apply to college football and the BCS. Does that system work?

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