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Old 03-09-2014, 06:30 PM   #21
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Old 03-09-2014, 06:34 PM   #22
bubkusjones

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFreeorDie View Post
Dan Henderson has been on steroids and injecting testosterone for 6 years! That goes all the way back to Pride 33 if you look at the date of this article.

yearshttp://www.mmamania.com/2013/2/21/4013536/dan-henderson-ufc-157-trt-six-years-drug-testing-policy-mma


Chael Sonnen has been injecting the steroid testosterone since 2008!

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Cha...as-Vegas-42905

Lets look at their wins while steroids were made legal for some.

Dan: Wand, Paul Harris, Rich Franklin, Bispbing, Babalu, Calvalcante, Fedor, Shogun.

And Chael: Filho, Miller, Okami, Nate, Stann, Bispbing, Shogun


Now do you consider any of these wins still valid and why?

Should these wins be considered No Contest due to a NOW banned substance?

Should the loser be granted rematches that are fair?
What about guys who fought in Pride and won by techniques prohibited under the Unified Rules (like Shogun, Wand, or even Coleman's PrideGP Final win)? Or what about guys who fought in the UFC before they adopted the Unified Rules? Should Royce Gracie have his UFC 1/2/4 tournament championships overturned because he wore what is now prohibited attire? What about Dan Severn's wins via headbutt? Or what about Gary Goodridge's classic back-mount-Crucifix with the simultaneous knees/elbows to his opponent's head?

They all followed the rules as they existed at the time the fight was contested, and as such, the results should stand.


The Goodridge gif, for historical sake.


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Old 03-09-2014, 06:40 PM   #23
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If its sanctioned. Its legal.

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Old 03-09-2014, 06:46 PM   #24
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They were legit at the time, and retrospectively still are.

It's not like new technology in testing uncovered historic transgressions, is it?

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Old 03-09-2014, 06:48 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveFreeorDie View Post
Dan Henderson has been on steroids and injecting testosterone for 6 years! That goes all the way back to Pride 33 if you look at the date of this article.

yearshttp://www.mmamania.com/2013/2/21/4013536/dan-henderson-ufc-157-trt-six-years-drug-testing-policy-mma


Chael Sonnen has been injecting the steroid testosterone since 2008!

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Cha...as-Vegas-42905

Lets look at their wins while steroids were made legal for some.

Dan: Wand, Paul Harris, Rich Franklin, Bispbing, Babalu, Calvalcante, Fedor, Shogun.

And Chael: Filho, Miller, Okami, Nate, Stann, Bispbing, Shogun


Now do you consider any of these wins still valid and why?

Should these wins be considered No Contest due to a NOW banned substance?

Should the loser be granted rematches that are fair?
It was part of the rules so yes it will stand. Was it fair? No.

I have no sympathy for Wand - Obvious reasons but Bisping has got a rough end of it.

Vitor, Hendo, Sonnen - His only other losses are Wand* & a SD versus Rashad.

Doesn't change the fact that he wasn't good enough to get passed 'test' enhanced athletes that other clean fighters could trump but it still doesn't make it fair.

That being said the testing policy within MMA is useless. No blood test, No random testing - You would have to be a moron to get caught.

Lance armstrong was being tested daily and pissing clean. It's a flawed system.

Potentially anyone who wants to be on PED's can be on PED's and we would all be none the wiser to it.

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Old 03-09-2014, 06:50 PM   #26
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EDIT: The records aren't the greatest, closer to 0.500.... I was going to start a thread on TRT a few weeks ago but it was becoming too much to get into... here's some stats from what I began. Basically you win some you lose some... it'll be interesting going forward with how the same future age groups probably tank as opposed to staying competitive... if it's really an advantage which I think it is....

Big Foot Silva 0-1 on TRT
(Loss) vs Mark Hunt

Chael Sonnen 6-5 on TRT
(Loss) Rashad Evans
(Win) Shogun
(Loss) Jon Jones
(Loss) Anderson Silva II
(Win) Michael Bisping
(Win) vs Brian Stann
(Loss Anderson Silva I
(Win) Nate Marquadt
(Win) Yushin Okami
(Win) Dan Miller
(Loss) Damian Maia

Dan Henderson 7-6 on TRT
(Loss) Vitor Belfort - KO
(Loss) Rashad Evans - SD
(Loss) Lyoto Machida - SD
(Win) Maurício Rua - UD
(Win) Fedor Emelianenko - TKO
(Win) Rafael Cavalcante - TKO
(Win) Renato Sobral - KO
(Loss) Jake Shields - UD
(Win) Michael Bisping - KO
(Win) Rich Franklin - SD
(Win) Rousimar Palhares - UD
(Loss) Anderson Silva - SUB
(Loss) Quinton Jackson - UD

Rampage Jackson 0-2
(Loss) Ryan Bader - UD
(Loss) Glover Teixeira - UD
http://www.5thround.com/107767/quint...py-at-ufc-144/

Vitor Belfort...
(Loss) Jon Jones
(Win) Dan Henderson


Last edited by Jermei; 03-09-2014 at 06:56 PM.
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Old 03-09-2014, 07:04 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermei View Post
Vitor Belfort...
(Loss) Jon Jones
(Win) Dan Henderson
You forgot Rockhold and Bisping

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Old 03-09-2014, 07:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermei View Post
I believe the combined record of TRT users is actually pretty bad, most have losing records since using TRT.
A strong proportion are fighting within the UFC as opposed to fights on small promotions. The fact they we've heard of them means that they are having significant fights.

Without it perhaps they aren't able to compete at UFC level at all.

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Old 03-09-2014, 07:10 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nameless Ghoul View Post
You forgot Rockhold and Bisping
Yeah, like I said I stopped researching. I was surprised by how many used and for how long they used... I think once I found this article I stopped as they had already covered what I was trying to figure out.

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2013/6/30...ing-record-ufc

I'll agree that the sanctioned fights for the users are totally legit.

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Old 03-09-2014, 07:15 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yolandabecool View Post
A strong proportion are fighting within the UFC as opposed to fights on small promotions. The fact they we've heard of them means that they are having significant fights.

Without it perhaps they aren't able to compete at UFC level at all.
You quoted me before I tried to ninja my post... I thought I remembered the records being losing more than winning but it appears to be more like 50/50 without calculating the facts... I personally think without it they wouldn't be in good enough shape to compete with other who aren't on it and/or younger...... but the problem stems from previous roid abuse so if the next gen of fighters stay clean they won't have to compensate later in their career, hopefully.

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