Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums

Go Back   Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Fight Discussion > UFC Discussion

UFC Discussion Discuss UFC, former WEC and former Pride events here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-15-2014, 02:01 PM   #71
Steve08

Silver Belt
 
Steve08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bawston, MA
Posts: 13,652
vCash: 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKS View Post
No....submissions are wrestling based from the beginning science it's the oldest form of grappling. Bjj, judo, and sambo all attribute different submissions as well.
Sambo is nothing more than wrestling + judo, but yeah. I am pretty sure that even the Greeks realized, "hey, if I grab his wrist and tug his arm behind his back then he probably won't like it!"

Images of ancient Pankration on Greek urns, pots etc. will also reveal the presence of kicks, armlocks, and the like, which is truly fascinating to me.

__________________
"I'm going to have a lot of fun. I'm going in there to embarrass him. This is not going to be a close fight."
-Chris Weidman on Vitor Belfort
Steve08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 02:04 PM   #72
FinBJJ

Brown Belt
 
FinBJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,161
vCash: 186
BJJ has the widest range of submissions (AFAIK) of any grappling art so it kind of makes sense to attribute submissions to BJJ.

__________________
Nothing beats wrestling...except jiu-jitsu.
-Mark Schultz

Porra caralho!
FinBJJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 02:06 PM   #73
NoBiasJustMMA

Silver Belt
 
NoBiasJustMMA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Maryland
Posts: 12,278
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve08 View Post
He's right; scholastic wrestling would appear quite similar to Catch of antiquity if submissions were allowed, and I have seen wrestlers with no BJJ experience grab a kimura from the bottom to reverse position.

Mark Schultz also once proposed that idea; legalize submissions in scholastic wrestling. I can't say I disagree. Something just seems more decisive about literally forcing a guy to quit as opposed to pinning him to the mat for a few seconds.
I like that idea, can you imagine how much better a guy like Weidman would be had he been familiar with submissions since he was a child?

__________________
"All I guarantee is Violence" Wanderlei Silva
HW Fedor, Mir, Cormier
LHW Wanderlei, Shogun, Alex G.
MW Weidman
WW Diaz, Lawler, Kampmann
LW Gomi, Pettis, Alvarez, Khabib N.
NoBiasJustMMA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 02:08 PM   #74
Steve08

Silver Belt
 
Steve08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Bawston, MA
Posts: 13,652
vCash: 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinBJJ View Post
BJJ has the widest range of submissions (AFAIK) of any grappling art so it kind of makes sense to attribute submissions to BJJ.
This is true. You can learn submissions from outside jiu-jitsu, to be sure, but the vast majority of those who do, learn it in a jiu-jitsu environment.

I also wholeheartedly believe that it is the most complete, effective grappling art, but perhaps I am just biased.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoBiasJustMMA
I like that idea, can you imagine how much better a guy like Weidman would be had he been familiar with submissions since he was a child?


that would be legitimately scary..............

__________________
"I'm going to have a lot of fun. I'm going in there to embarrass him. This is not going to be a close fight."
-Chris Weidman on Vitor Belfort
Steve08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 02:21 PM   #75
Pojo18
Banned
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 144
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnarwhal View Post
i learned the darce and kimura like my first class of bjj
yeah but bjj didnt invent them.

kimura = reverse ude garami in judo.

double wrist lock in some submission wrestling styles.


honestly pretty much all submissions exist in nearly all grappling styles allowing that form of submissions.

armbar = juji gatame , etc etc

Pojo18 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 02:37 PM   #76
FeloniousMonk

Blue Belt
 
FeloniousMonk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: LA
Posts: 640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinBJJ View Post
Where did you come up with that? It was a headlock ala Dave Schultz.
There's no such thing as an inverted anaconda as far as I know. Unless you insist on calling the d'arce an inverted anaconda.
Rogan either called it that or "inverted north south choke." Some shit. I should have clarified that I have no formal background in any grappling. Just throwing in my examples of subs that aren't exactly BJJ based...

But I would like to raise you Charles Oliviera's inverted anaconda that he hit Hioki recently with as well as Popo Bezzera with earlier in his career. (Which is a great fight, btw)

FeloniousMonk is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 02:44 PM   #77
Gorbag

White Belt
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 126
vCash: 500
There are tons of submission techniques in judo; chokes, strangles, arm-locks, leg-locks, knee-bars, neck-cranks, wrist-locks etc., etc... Only chokes, strangles and arm-locks are allowed in competition, but there are thousands of variations of them...

Gorbag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 02:48 PM   #78
FinBJJ

Brown Belt
 
FinBJJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Finland
Posts: 3,161
vCash: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by FeloniousMonk View Post
But I would like to raise you Charles Oliviera's inverted anaconda that he hit Hioki recently with as well as Popo Bezzera with earlier in his career. (Which is a great fight, btw)
They are just regular anacondas finished by pulling the opponent to guard.

__________________
Nothing beats wrestling...except jiu-jitsu.
-Mark Schultz

Porra caralho!
FinBJJ is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 03:02 PM   #79
Linthec

Orange Belt
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 320
vCash: 500
Judo and catch influenced each other and eventually influenced bjj. What bjj did really well was create a positional hierarchy and the transitions between said positions. Grappling is universal so no one can really lay claim to anything in particular, but if bjj could claim something then it would be defining all the major combat positions on the ground and how to use them in a fight.

Linthec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-15-2014, 03:35 PM   #80
riddleofsteel
The Usurper
 
riddleofsteel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: On the road again. Like a band of gypsies we go down the highway
Posts: 4,026
vCash: 412
American folkstyle wrestling derives from catch wrestling. As wrestling became a scholastic sport the submissions were removed, a scoring system was developed and time limits imposed.

__________________
Sometimes, hype just ain't enough.
Rothwell TKO Overeem in 2:19. Mitrione KO Lewis in 0:41.
Someone forgot to tell Rick Story he was supposed to buy into the hype.
Eddie who?
riddleofsteel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Latest Threads



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:01 AM.

Sherdog.com Forum Rules Clear Cookies Social Groups Lost Password
Contact Us - Sherdog Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices

Skin made by Alex. © iStyles.uni.cc Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
forums.sherdog.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.
monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"