Pro Wrestling SHFT Discussion 78: Who Betta Than Spanky, Who Betta???

[edgekiller65]

Originally Posted by broc5k

Back at the end of the Reign of Terror I really didn't like Triple H, and was on the "H holding the man down!" bandwagon. I think it was more just being really sick of him by then, than actually hating the guy, and I was butthurt about RVD not being pushed to the moon. No doubt he protected himself and his character at that time, but that really was more business than anything. It was his time at the top, Austin was on his way out, as was Rocky, Foley was shot by then, there was finally no reason for him NOT to be the top guy. And he took that ball and ran with it like he stole it from 7-11.

Pretty hard to hate on the guy nowadays. He's doing an insane amount of good for the company, he got Bruno frickin Sammartino to agree to being associated with the WWE, that alone is a god damn pro wrestling miracle. He has true love for the business, and is in a position now to really take it back in the right direction. It could be a HELL of a lot worse, it could be Steph and a million Yes Men taking control. Yikes. I give Vince a helluva hard time, but I have a lot of respect for the fact that he's slowly handing over the reigns to a guy like Triple H.

I can't disagree with that. Hunter hit/miss ratio is extremely on his favour. The E will fall in good hands when the time comes for Vince.

Still, 2003 Hunter was brutal.

[Michaelangelo]

Originally Posted by edgekiller65

I can't disagree with that. Hunter hit/miss ratio is extremely on his favour. The E will fall in good hands when the time comes for Vince.

Still, 2003 Hunter was brutal.

Stole my WM 19 money. That bastard.

[flowwiththego]

81 Crockett was different than 85 Crockett. Yes he had his promotor backing him but every propmotor had their own boy they wanted in as champ. In 81 you still had Florida, Georgia and St Louis (among others) as strong territories.
More important to a promoter having his own boy as champ was making money. Flair fit the bill nicely.
If you remember it was Georgia that had the most national exposure at the time.

Now by all accounts, including Ric Flair's, David Von Erich had "it" and would have been world champ and would have carried it. I think that trip to Japan was to solidify David as a worldwide draw and finally give Fritz what he wanted..... the NWA belt for his son.

[DannyBoy1985]

Originally Posted by Big Burly

I agree with you, but you must remember, of ALL of the von Erich boys, David was the best. He was the best on the mic, best and most natural in the ring, and tallest. He probably would have filled out some more with time, but he was basically built like Barry Windham. He was extremely charismatic, and could play heel and babyface equally well.

He was a big draw in Florida, St. Louis, Georgia, and of course, Texas. He could have been a major player for the NWA belt, or any other World title, had he lived. He was definitely on the fast track.

Oh that wasn't a knock against David Von Erich, his talent or anything, it's just that by the time he would've been ready for & then eventually gotten the NWA title, Jim Crockett was basically in control of it and David wasn't in with him, nor Dusty Rhodes (who of course was soon to be the JCP booker). Crockett wasn't gonna let David hold it long term, really nobody but Flair was getting it long term by that point.

If you look at it, between the time Flair first won the NWA title in '81 and the time he jumped ship to WWF in '91, the best length title reign anybody besides Flair got was Sting's 188 day reign from '89-'90, which wasn't a short reign per se, but still not that long compared to many other NWA title reigns. And Sting holding it that long had a lot to do with Flair himself and also WCW being in a mess at the time.

Now if say Magnum TA's career hadn't been ended by that accident & he had eventually gotten the NWA title as he was on the path to do, id venture a guess that he very well could've been given a pretty good length title reign because he was Dusty's "boy".

[flowwiththego]

Originally Posted by DannyBoy1985

Oh that wasn't a knock against David Von Erich, his talent or anything, it's just that by the time he would've been ready for & then eventually gotten the NWA title, Jim Crockett was basically in control of it and David wasn't in with him, nor Dusty Rhodes (who of course was soon to be the JCP booker). Crockett wasn't gonna let David hold it long term, really nobody but Flair was getting it long term by that point.

If you look at it, between the time Flair first won the NWA title in '81 and the time he jumped ship to WWF in '91, the best length title reign anybody besides Flair got was Sting's 188 day reign from '89-'90, which wasn't a short reign per se, but still not that long compared to many other NWA title reigns. And Sting holding it that long had a lot to do with Flair himself and also WCW being in a mess at the time.

Now if say Magnum TA's career hadn't been ended by that accident & he had eventually gotten the NWA title as he was on the path to do, id venture a guess that he very well could've been given a pretty good length title reign because he was Dusty's "boy".

Man it would have been interesting, huh!!!!! Texas was super hot and even popular in the Mid East. They used to joke that the only thing the Isreal and Palestine would agree on was the Von Erich boys. Would have been something to see how it played out.
Then technolgy devoured another American institution and here we are.

[flowwiththego]

Bockwinkel was also under consideration as NWA champ but took him out of consideration because of the grueling schedule. Interesting about him was Stu switched alliance to the AWA and Bockwinkel when Dusty became champ because he knew his fans wouldn't buy Dusty as champ. Also Paul Boesch switched to him after Harley no showed a big Houston date against, I believe Tony Atlas. (Boesch had a one night tournament to crown a new world champ because he was so mad but reconsidered and went with Bockwinkel and the AWA. The winner of his brief world championship? Guess who? Wahoo!!!!)

[GSPSAKU]

Originally Posted by HereticBD

Not to mention Ric Flair.

The Punk hate is absurd. Some still refer to him as "the Indy darling, who put on five star matches in high school gyms", even though he's a multiple time WWE World Champion, with countless five star matches on the big stage.

Then again, these same people comment on the IWC, as if they're not apart of it, while they post these thoughts on an internet forum.

"The IWC is a joke, and their opinions don't matter." - Stupidsmarks754, Sherdog.com

Yea, guys like Piper, Hogan, Hart, Austin and company who all think the world of Punk are nothing more than IWC smarks...

I've always thought Punk was a very good wrestler although some moves he performs do look crappy (the elbow for one) BUT he gets far too much crap. John Cena has rarely looked great over the past 6-8 years. That match last RAW was arguably the best match Cena's had, at least for me although I have not seen much of Cena over the last 3-4 years, it was fantastic. Say what you want, Punk's had some great matches and over the last two years, hes brought the best out of Cena.

Anyhow, I find it funny that only 'Taker and HHH are allowed to do pile drivers because "they are very strong" and "know what they are doing".

[CFranco]

Originally Posted by GSPSAKU

Yea, guys like Piper, Hogan, Hart, Austin and company who all think the world of Punk are nothing more than IWC smarks...

I've always thought Punk was a very good wrestler although some moves he performs do look crappy (the elbow for one) BUT he gets far too much crap. John Cena has rarely looked great over the past 6-8 years. That match last RAW was arguably the best match Cena's had, at least for me although I have not seen much of Cena over the last 3-4 years, it was fantastic. Say what you want, Punk's had some great matches and over the last two years, hes brought the best out of Cena.

Anyhow, I find it funny that only 'Taker and HHH are allowed to do pile drivers because "they are very strong" and "know what they are doing".

Majority of good Cena matches, if not all since Edge and HBK retired are against Punk.
Oh and there's the Brock fight, but in all honesty unless Cena has a "ring general" in the ring, his matches follow the same mold.

[DannyBoy1985]

Originally Posted by flowwiththego

Bockwinkel was also under consideration as NWA champ but took him out of consideration because of the grueling schedule. Interesting about him was Stu switched alliance to the AWA and Bockwinkel when Dusty became champ because he knew his fans wouldn't buy Dusty as champ. Also Paul Boesch switched to him after Harley no showed a big Houston date against, I believe Tony Atlas. (Boesch had a one night tournament to crown a new world champ because he was so mad but reconsidered and went with Bockwinkel and the AWA. The winner of his brief world championship? Guess who? Wahoo!!!!)

I don't know whether it's true or not, but ive heard that Ted DiBiase almost got the NWA title at one point. A lot of wrestlers have said they were suppose to be the NWA Champion and many wrestlers really were under consideration at one point or another to get it, so who knows.

A couple guys i personally would've liked to have seen as the NWA World Heavyweight Champion back in the day are Don Leo Jonathan & Bill Miller. They were both big stars & draws and both were way more than talented enough, but neither one of them really had a home territory & promoter to go get them the votes and of course both had their size going against them. Perhaps they were considered at some point, but it's understandable why neither was ever the NWA Champion, though i still would liked to have seen it. Don Leo Jonathan reportedly did turn down a WWWF World Heavyweight Championship opportunity back in the day because he would have had to skip hunting & fishing season in Canada to fulfill wrestling bookings.

[Michaelangelo]

Flair was bigger than Punk even in 2000.