What is the best argument for god?

[Mouloudo]

Originally Posted by Quanta

Quit spewing nonsense. Is it to much to ask that someone have at least an elementary understanding of calculus before trying to chip in on these conversations?

http://tutorial.math.lamar.edu/Class...fInfinity.aspx





And taking it a little further:
http://eldar.mathstat.uoguelph.ca/da...nfPlusOne.html

"Infinity does not grow

Infinity is not "getting larger", it is already fully formed.

Sometimes people (including me) say it "goes on and on" which sounds like it is growing somehow. But infinity does not do anything, it just is."

thank you but I'm not that dumb, you can't expand infinity period, infinity + 1 = inifinity, not infinity that would be bigger by one

[eworden78]

Originally Posted by Quanta

No, no, no, no, no.

The "stuff" in the universe isn't what is expanding. It is space itself that is expanding.

No, I get it. My analogy is way too simple. I was just trying to illustrate how something could be finite and infinite at the same time.

The truth is there is no definite or simple way to describe it.

This guy does a good job explaining how from a relativistic perspective the universe can be both finite and infinite.

http://youtu.be/rfeJhzPq3jQ

[Quanta]

Originally Posted by Mouloudo

"Infinity does not grow

Infinity is not "getting larger", it is already fully formed.

Sometimes people (including me) say it "goes on and on" which sounds like it is growing somehow. But infinity does not do anything, it just is."

thank you but I'm not that dumb, you can't expand infinity period, infinity + 1 = inifinity, not infinity that would be bigger by one

Early you said that infinity +1 doesn't equal infinity.

At least now you are admitting youa re wrong on that point.

Now continue educating yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_number

[Mouloudo]

I didn't said that, here's what I said

Originally Posted by Mouloudo

infinity + 1 is still infinity cause you can't ad anything to the infinity, nothing can make infinity bigger, hence my question how can you expand more something already expanded to the infinite

I only said that nothing is bigger than infinity, so how can the universe, which is infinite, exapnd? that would mean the universe was smaller a second ago than now, which is non sense, because if it's bigger now, that would mean that it wasn't infinite before, cause nothing is bigger than infinity, you can add whatever to infinty it's still infinity... dont know if I make sense...

Anyway I dont think the universe is infinite, I know that sounds dumb and unfounded, but I just can't grasp that something doesn't end, nothing we know is infinite, so why the universe would be? then everyone agrees on the big bang theory, then probably the big crunch, in both case the universe has to have an end to first start expanding from a narrow point ( a point by essence is finite) than to reduce itself to another point, how can something get smaller and smaller if it doesn't end?

but again I'm no scientist

[JonesBones]

Originally Posted by Quanta

Think of a flat piece of paper.

It is finite in size. Now imagine it starts expanding. How big can it theoretically get? Infinity big, since you can easily imagine all 4 sides of it shooting off as far they want with no problem. The volume of it is still finite, but it's geometry is infinite, since there is no bound on how far it can expand.


Now imagine curling a sheet of paper, such that one end of it it aiming at the center of it. Now imagine it expanding. Well, it won't get very far, since it well intersect itself. Hence, it's geometry is closed and bounded.

How isn't its volume infinite? Infinity means never ending. If the geometry of something is expanding infinitely, then its volume is right along with it.

The universe doesn't currently stretch to infinity.

What does that even mean? Infinity is not a place. It's a process. It isn't some place you just walk up, stick a post in the ground, and say "here is infinity." It is simply never ending. And since the volume is never ending because the geometry is never ending, both are infinite. Volume follows geometry.



Third one is a flat universe. If that extends infinitely, it has an infinite volume. It's volume is increasing to no end. That's the definition of infinity.

Another pic:



Scientists think it is flat with less than 1% error.

[JonesBones]

Originally Posted by Mouloudo

"Infinity does not grow

Infinity is not "getting larger", it is already fully formed.

Sometimes people (including me) say it "goes on and on" which sounds like it is growing somehow. But infinity does not do anything, it just is."

thank you but I'm not that dumb, you can't expand infinity period, infinity + 1 = inifinity, not infinity that would be bigger by one

Again, infinity is not a location, it is a continuing process. As long as a process continues without end, it is infinite. That's what makes it infinite in the first place. Infinities grow.

[Quanta]

Originally Posted by JonesBones

How isn't its volume infinite? Infinity means never ending. If the geometry of something is expanding infinitely, then its volume is right along with it.



What does that even mean? Infinity is not a place. It's a process. It isn't some place you just walk up, stick a post in the ground, and say "here is infinity." It is simply never ending. And since the volume is never ending because the geometry is never ending, both are infinite. Volume follows geometry.

If you had a fast enough space ship, you could drive a post at the edge of the universe.


Consider this:
How big was the universe (volume-big, not mass big) at the moment the big bang occured?
How big was it 10 seconds afterwards?
How big was it a year afterwards?