"Hands up!" - A story of false senses of security:

[KennisTheMenace]

I have a big test coming up at the end of the month and I have been allowing myself one day a week of sparring at the most just to preserve my brain. I know that is stupid logic, but still, brain damage is a big concern of mine and it is not something that is highlighted very well in boxing gyms. I believe in a safe culture in sparring by throwing shots with lighter power over someone I have a clear advantage over. If there's not a fight coming up, why hard spar?

But that second video makes a guy just want to quit boxing altogether. Sheesh, I am going to want my brain when I am 41!!!

[SamVDW]

Originally Posted by Sinister

I'm just appalled that no one is WILLING to 5150 people who are obviously a threat to other people. We spent a whole day arguing with the local authorities about that. They wouldn't outright say it, but basically they would do nothing UNTIL Jimmy actually went on a rampage, even though there are portions of the law that allow them to.

In Nevada it is called a Legal 2000. The police terminology is 10-96 (mental health). All they do is take you to a hospital to be seen by a doctor (a normal medical doctor, not even a psych doctor). The doctor will clear them immediately and let them leave the hospital as long as they have no plans to immediately hurt themselves.

It's not just Nevada and/or Arizona that are bad. There is no mental health system like there used to be fifty years ago. The jails and prisons ARE the mental health system. That's why all medium to large jails/prisons have entire wings that are mental health. That's where mental health patients go, and only when they commit a crime.

It's not a crime to have mental health issues. And there is nothing in all of America for basic mental health care for people. That's why we have so many homeless people in a rich country like the United States.

[devante]

Originally Posted by Nuclearlandmine

Is it me or is there also the issue of false security regarding what sparring IS and IS NOT?. I mean there's like a large amount of people who always think that sparring should be as close to competition as possible, and then they proceed to get themselves or their partner either laid out or busted up real bad even with gears on. They then marched on and suffers when they are older. That's not to mention people with constant ego trip and the needs to feel good via beating the other guy up.

this is a good point, not just w/fighter; but w/casual guys, everytime people talk about acceptable contact...or not enough contact. In fact alot of guys on here bash someone for not sparring hard, an hard sparring obv needs to happen; but it can't be all you do and it can't be when your outgunned/outclassed...because that ends up w/alot of people getting wrecked. Which i guess may be fine if your a fighter, probably not, but def not if your just a guy who likes to train and see what he learned in a live session (i.e. see how it holds up).

you can have good sparring w/out hard sparring and just cus its hard sparring doesn't mean its necessarily good....

[Sinister]

Originally Posted by SamVDW

In Nevada it is called a Legal 2000. The police terminology is 10-96 (mental health). All they do is take you to a hospital to be seen by a doctor (a normal medical doctor, not even a psych doctor). The doctor will clear them immediately and let them leave the hospital as long as they have no plans to immediately hurt themselves.

It's not just Nevada and/or Arizona that are bad. There is no mental health system like there used to be fifty years ago. The jails and prisons ARE the mental health system. That's why all medium to large jails/prisons have entire wings that are mental health. That's where mental health patients go, and only when they commit a crime.

It's not a crime to have mental health issues. And there is nothing in all of America for basic mental health care for people. That's why we have so many homeless people in a rich country like the United States.

Yes, I recall the disbanding of mental institutions and such, and many patients just being let out into the streets. Well, not that I myself remember it, but I've read about it. It sucks. And I dislike the notion that "it's not a crime to be mentally ill" when used in the context like it was used in argument with us. It's so excusing of non-action. It should be a crime to be neglectful of those in need of treatment because they have mental health issues.

[SamVDW]

Originally Posted by Sinister

Yes, I recall the disbanding of mental institutions and such, and many patients just being let out into the streets. Well, not that I myself remember it, but I've read about it. It sucks. And I dislike the notion that "it's not a crime to be mentally ill" when used in the context like it was used in argument with us. It's so excusing of non-action. It should be a crime to be neglectful of those in need of treatment because they have mental health issues.

Its not meant to be used as an argument against you (or anyone making a similar case). I've run into the situation probably in the hundreds of times. Its a major issue that is overlooked in our society today. Many of the mass shootings in the U.S. over the last decade are from mental health people. But for whatever reason people just overlook that and say guns are the problem.

Your story in this thread really spoke to me, as I've encountered many people like the one you described (albeit, they have mental health issues for different reasons). It was the first one I've encountered regarding the dementia related to fighting, so that's something I will be cognitive to watch out for now.

[Phlog]

It's a travesty in the UK too. They call it care in the community, really its just the state washing its hands of the responsibility. It's a tax on the relations of the person, a tax on good intentions of samaritans and a tax on the people who get fucked by the mentally ill.

My sister is a basket case, refuses treatment, has been sectioned (brought in for analysis) at least 8 times in the last few years. Her behavior is shocking but, she refuses help. The system is waiting for another suicide attempt or an attack before it steps in and thatll likely only be a couple o months detention. They just don't have the resources. Already our family are tens of thousands of pounds in the hole trying to help. An institution would be the kindest eventuality.

A society which dosent look after those in need is no society at all.

We will be judged by how we treat our most disadvantaged.

[bowlie]

Originally Posted by 350 lbs fist

Funniest thing though are those tough guys who go crazy hard but go into insta-coward mode when seeing their outmatched.

We had this the other day in taekwondo. This guy came in with an attitude that stank, not listening, wearing a shirt that looked like the cover art of a GTA game. I dont go in for all that bowing to the class and turning around to sort out your clothes and stuff, but I treat the guys i train with with respect, especially the coaches, and this kid really annoyed me. We started light sparring and let him join in on the condition it was light so he didnt get carried away.

I asked if he had trained at he just said 'on the steets, init' and imediatly took up some weird philly shell stance. We taught him the basics and let him light spar one of the guys and it was ok. He threw alot of high kicks and wild punches with terrible defense but he kept them relatively light so that was ok.

We then matched up a black belt girl and a white belt guy who is, I beleive 6'5". It was a pretty close match considering the size differences but she got caught by a hook when she wasnt expecting it and was slightly rocked for a few seconds. Anyway at the end of the fight he demanded to fight again so we told him he could spar the white belt. He said that wasnt fair and demanded to fight the black belt instead because he thought he could beat her. he couldnt, but its disgusting when someone demands to fight, and when is offered a partner backs out and demands a fight with someone easier so that they can beat them up. Oh and he complained about me using 16oz gloves, saying I was cheating.

[bowlie]

The problem with mental institutions is it is incredibly hard to maintain good standards of care. I have a friend that works in one, and they all work really hard but the resources are so stretched. If you look at the cases of abuse, neglect and mistreatment in care homes for the elderly the problems are pretty much the same. I totaly agree that more needs to be done, not just on providing for people with serious mental illnesses but also those with minor ones.

[aries]

That is a sad story about Jimmy and I can see how he ended up with brain damage if he sparred like he fought. He just plodded forward, leading face first with an ineffective high guard. No angles, no lateral movement, no head movement and slow as hell. He was just a walking punch bag, no wonder guys used to like sparring him.

Originally Posted by Inquisitus

I thought having his hands low was fine because he was able to lean back when Silva punched and ride the arm coming back. But, for whatever reason, he got too close and maybe got mentally pinned against the fence.

Looked to me it was a combination of Bigfoots strategy to hold back until the later rounds when Alistair would slow down and Alistairs over confidence because Bigfoot hadn't really been throwing much his way until then and then Bigfoot just exploded all over him. That change in gears totally caught Overeem by surprise and he couldn't react because he was getting sluggish. Bigfoot seemed like a cowered docile opponent up until then which just compounded Overeems over confidence.

[Tysonalifrazier]

Weird system you guys have there. Same goes for the guy in the UK, man that´s messed up. Such things are an problem many people underestimate, because they can´t grasp how damaging and limiting it is for the affected person.

The brother of one of my friends has a severe mental illness, not through brain damage but caused through stress and other conditions which led him to breakdown. He was in stationary treatment (I know the hospital and the wing which is responsible for the cure of mental ill persons, its very good) but thats not enough. You need people (family, friends, doctors) who look after you and help you to create a stable life again. But that was not the case with him and he fell back into his old pattern of neurosis and other stuff.

Jimmys case is more severe, naturally, and not cureable. But he needs ATLEAST, some doctor or other qualified person to look after him. I assume he does not have a helping family or friends ?´