Standing Overhead Press

[JRT6]

I need to either change my standing OHP technique or take that exercise it out of my routine. I do Ripp's method and no doubt I've dodged a few bullets with my lower back.

[Midnighter]

Originally Posted by LegioTitan

You know, I miss you when you're gone.

Originally Posted by Arlecchino

I can't quit you.

Both of you need to post more.

[Denoginizer]

Originally Posted by Tosa

Ask me in a few weeks.

Are you going to be doing any bench while on Smolov Jr, or just focusing on SOHP?

[Tosa]

Originally Posted by Denoginizer

Are you going to be doing any bench while on Smolov Jr, or just focusing on SOHP?

No bench. Just some easy, high rep band work for triceps and shoulders, to keep things feeling good. If it doesn't work, I at least want to learn something, and not have it be because I didn't follow it correctly. If all goes well, and I decide to run Smolov Jr. for press again, I might include some sort of lighter, higher rep horizontal pressing.

[eastNYgoon138]

Originally Posted by Arlecchino

It adds poundage at the expense of good technique and increased risk of injury. This last aspect is inexcusable.

Well, it's not "bad" technique. It's just too advanced for a beginner lifter, and that's who he's selling it too, which I disagree with as well. For a more advanced weightlifter, strongman or generally stronger individuals it's a good way to increase their overhead strength.

Originally Posted by Arlecchino

You do not teach it the way he does because that way you develop bad habits that take forever to correct. Time wasted like this can never be regained.

Well I teach it to plenty of people who will probably never power clean over 250-lbs just for the simple fact that they're learning the lift for their general health. And for that kind of person, the technique is great. It's simple to learn and employ. And it's safe.

Originally Posted by Arlecchino

If he would have just stuck to promoting Starr's program and kept his mouth shut he would have been fine. But now that he is an authority on how to do every lift, including ones that he has never coached work a shit, it is causing him some problems. Combine this with his taking credit for coaching lifters he never helped at all and it is really no surprise his credibility is going in the shitter with respect to the entire sport of weightlifting.

Oh, and, of course, blasting weightlifting coaches who produce national level lifters and people who go to the Olympics for not knowing how to coach. On this subject, the entire weightlifting community is still waiting for him to show everyone how its done.

Oh, and his championing of the low-bar squat for Olympic lifting, despite his having been shown why the high-bar squat is superior at teaching position and numerous other benefits (if you watch his squat video about squatting for weightlifting, the errors should be obvious), and bashing weightlifting coaches for not following his advice and "not wanting lifters to be strong" or "forgetting that weightlifting is a strength sport." Of course, this ignores many factors, including the most obvious:

1. Many athletes have increased their low-bar back squat with zero improvement on their quick lifts.
2. Many athletes already squat far more than they need to in order to rise from the bottom of a snatch or clean, and, if you compare our top lifters to the ones who normally win gold, the issues are mostly technical in nature. Obviously, the low bar back squat does not improve ones speed under the bar.
3. While the low-bar back squat may increase the muscles used in the pull slightly more than the high bar back squat, so what? Very few athletes miss a lift in the first pull, and power in the second pull is largely a speed/acceleration issue, and people tend to accelerate the high bar squat a bit better due to getting more rebound out of the bottom. This also overlooks the simple point that when weightlifters want to increase the strength of the muscles used when pulling, well, we pull. This tends to work a bit better than any sort of squatting, and also allows technique work at the same time.

At the end of the day, all Mark has to do is actually produce lifters to back up his claims.

I'm completely uninterested in the controversy surrounding Rip. His work helps people get strong and healthy and he reaches far more common people than any other coach out there right now. Every week I see new men and women in the gym squatting, and 99% of the time they're doing Starting Strength. I think it's fucking awesome. We need another 100 Rip's to fix this terrible fitness industry.

[Eric Brown]

[QUOTE=eastNYgoon138;79248103]Well, it's not "bad" technique. It's just too advanced for a beginner lifter, and that's who he's selling it too, which I disagree with as well. For a more advanced weightlifter, strongman or generally stronger individuals it's a good way to increase their overhead strength.[/quote[

Increased risk of injury = bad. Not difficult.

You keep asserting it is advanced. Please support this. And compare and contrast this with injuries with respect to traditional press and laying back in the press (a good idea would be to review data from when the press started to deteriorate as an Olympic lift (i.e., the technique was considered 'bad') and the increase in number of lower back injuries.

Well I teach it to plenty of people who will probably never power clean over 250-lbs just for the simple fact that they're learning the lift for their general health. And for that kind of person, the technique is great. It's simple to learn and employ.

Gee, imagine what they might be able to power clean if they did it correctly. And, of course, learning a lift using proper technique provides so many obvious benefits that I am not even going to bother to list them.

And it's safe.

Another unsupported assertion. Please do better than PhelpsMMA and actually support this. You will obviously need to do something about the increase in shearing force given the "hips high" position advocated by Mark (a position which was abandoned by the weightlifting community decades ago because better ways were found which resulted in more weight moved and less lower back injury).

And by support I mean do not repeat this again, actually back up your statements.

I'm completely uninterested in the controversy surrounding Rip. His work helps people get strong and healthy and he reaches far more common people than any other coach out there right now.

Some people actually manage to get strong using crossfit. Does not make it any good. And support that Mark reaches more common people than any other coach. Would be interested in seeing actually data to support this.

Every week I see new men and women in the gym squatting, and 99% of the time they're doing Starting Strength.

I see people squatting all the time too. None of them are doing starting strength. This is why something more than anecdotal data would be nice from you. Endless series of assertions really mean nothing.

I think it's fucking awesome. We need another 100 Rip's to fix this terrible fitness industry.

So let's see:

1. Markets someone else's program.
2. Teaches technique wrong.
2a. Above increases risk of injury.
2b. Above makes learning proper technique more difficult as ingrained bad habits are incredibly difficult to break with respect to the Olympic lifts.
3. Insults coaches who are more successful than him as "bad coaches."
4. Lies about other coaches.
5. Claims credit for coaching lifters who do not even know his name.
6. Lies about coaching and weightlifting organizations as a whole (both the USAW and NSCA, for example)
7. Never coached a great weightlifter, yet holds himself as an authority.
8. Refuses to go anywhere (real life or the net) where he can actually get called on any of the above.
9. Is moving further and further into cult-type status similar to crossfit.
10. Complains about the people who do the same thing, particularly point number 9.

Yet this is "fixing the fitness industry?"

We apparently have different definitions of fix. Marketing bullshit =/= fix.

Note, assuming you can actually support your points, I will support all of mine. If you are just going to assert the same crap again, just let me know so.

[Disco]

And where is all your data?

Edit: and does anyone have a good YouTube link for the S technique that we should be doing?

[casperthegst]

You both have valid points... However, I am thankful there are people like Rip who are at least on the right track of helping others out despite the errors he makes. You are going to be hard pressed to find anybody in the fitness industry that is grade a 100% perfect in their philosophies of the training of people. It is good to hear differing viewpoints from different people that are respectable to increase your own knowledge database of fitness.

[Eric Brown]

Originally Posted by casperthegst

You both have valid points... However, I am thankful there are people like Rip who are at least on the right track of helping others out despite the errors he makes. You are going to be hard pressed to find anybody in the fitness industry that is grade a 100% perfect in their philosophies of the training of people. It is good to hear differing viewpoints from different people that are respectable to increase your own knowledge database of fitness.

No one is ever 100% correct. The best coaches all admit their mistakes, instead of insult everyone else, particularly those who do better than them.

There is a difference between making mistakes and refusing to acknowledge them. One is the route to future learning, the other is not. And any coach has an obligation to learn, or they fail their athletes.

[LegioTitan]

I just don't personally like the bastard. I mean, as a human being. If I had to share the same room with him for one more second I might have lost my shit.