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Dieting / Supplement Discussion You eat like a pig. You'll never be a champion if you stuff yourself with that slop. Get in here.

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Old 01-24-2013, 11:10 PM   #31
anaconda
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Originally Posted by TMMAray View Post
...this is the part where you display scientific support for those statements. Saying that your body will "wear out" its pH regulation system is like saying that living in a cold climate will "wear out" your body's temperature regulation system. That's simply not how anatomy works.

Again, it is just as bad for your body's pH to be too high, so this idea of eating a bunch of alkalizing food would theoretically put just as much strain on your system.

Another sign that these people are completely full of shit: They list "sea salt" as a highly alkalizing food, but "table salt - NaCl" (their words, not mine) as a highly acidic food. I'm curious what they think sea salt is composed of.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:16 AM   #32
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I can't speak of the science of things, but I can tell you that when I"m starting to overtrain or get exhausted all the time, I can feel my body is acidic. Apples, bananas, onions and garlic help.
You cannot possibly say your body is acidic and that you feel it.

Your body's pH is regulated to a very narrow range. If it went noticeably acidic you'd be in hospital or a coffin.

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Old 01-25-2013, 03:24 AM   #33
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What I find is this is true after its purification and before it is iodized. I find nothing about table salt containing iodine, however. So, it's the same elementary bullshit we feed our children - the actual fact that table salt and sea salt are not the same fucking thing.

Long story short, Table Salt contains Iodine (and potassium), sea salt, does not. This at the core is a fact that any reasonable person could use to distinguish the two on a chemical and nutritional level.
Actually that's not even true.

Sea salt's chemical composition depends on where it was harvested. It can contain potassium and a number of other chemicals. It can include very small amounts of iodine. The levels depend on how refined it is after evaporation.

However the vast majority of any kind of salt you get for human consumption is NaCl and the other chemicals are present in such small quantities, and we eat such a small amount anyway, that it does not make a significant difference to supposed acidity of your diet. Or do you have scientific facts to show this is untrue?

Also iodine is required by the body and was added to salt to help counter wide-spread iodine deficiency.


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Old 01-28-2013, 05:39 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Sarumyan View Post
So, randy couture's diet. I personally don't see the point of it, but are there any benefits or side effects of following it?

Main focus is to maintain ratio of alkalinity to acidity in your body.
The alkaline diet is mostly vegetarian. In addition to fresh vegetables and some fresh fruits, alkaline-promoting foods include soy products and some nuts, grains, and legumes.

Web sites promoting the alkaline diet discourage eating acid-promoting foods, which include meat, fish, poultry, dairy products, processed foods, white sugar, white flour, and caffeine.

The alkaline diet is basically healthy, says Marjorie Nolan, RD, an American Dietetic Association spokeswoman.

"It's a diet of fresh fruits and vegetables, plenty of water, avoiding processed foods, coffee, and alcohol, which are all recommendations for a generally healthy diet anyway," Nolan says. "But our body regulates our pH between 7.35 and 7.45 no matter how we eat."
Yeah I agree with the RD here. The diet is reasonably healthy because it's a high vegetable low sugar diet.

All the pH stuff is garbage bro science. One of those things where someone says something true (you should eat more vegetables, stop drinking soda) and then backs it up with a made up bullshit reason.

It's like saying you should look both ways before you cross the street only to make sure that Jesus is behind your shoulder.




The pH crowd is so retarded that they actually beleive it's a problem if your urine is acidic on a pH test. Even if they don't personally beleive that they'll use it as a reason why you need to buy their book or supplement protocol.

Some areas of the body are supposed to be acidic like the stomach, the urinary tract, urine in general, and the vagina. Blood pH is ~7.4 and if it varies significantly from that you have a medical problem, either acidosis or alkalosis. Alkalosis is not a goal to aim for.

This is the exact reason that semen contains an alkalinity buffer so that sperm aren't damaged or killed by remaining uric acid in the urinary tract as the sperm exits the penis.

Vaginas are supposed to be acidic and it's a natural defense against infection.

Stomach uses HCL to break down food.

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Old 01-28-2013, 05:53 PM   #35
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The fact that it is healthier to eat a high fiber high produce moderate animal protein low sugar diet than it is to eat a low fiber high fat high protein high sugar diet does not in any way support the claims of alkaline living crowd.

It just means that eating an omnivorous diet with lots of fiber and low sugar is good for your body. I would hope that most adults understand that.


Honestly this reminds me of Irish folktales that were used to scare children away from dangerous bodies of water.

"Well when we told the kids not to swim in that river because of a deep current and submerged trees they went swimming anyways, so instead we've decided to tell them that an evil faerie lives in the water and her child was taken from her when she was a young maiden so now she grabs the ankles of young children who swim above her and drags them down into a watery grave to sleep by her side for eternity."

Needless to say the bullshit supernatural story proved more effective at scaring children into proper behaviour.




I see this as being the same thing. A fairy tale invented to trick people into eating more vegetables, drinking water, and putting down the soda.

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Old 01-29-2013, 10:27 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by shunyata View Post
Yeah I agree with the RD here. The diet is reasonably healthy because it's a high vegetable low sugar diet.
So that's all it takes, veggies and low sugar?

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Originally Posted by shunyata View Post
All the pH stuff is garbage bro science.
I think you need to read up on the definition of science.

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Originally Posted by shunyata View Post
One of those things where someone says something true (you should eat more vegetables, stop drinking soda) and then backs it up with a made up bullshit reason.
Do you know what causes ulcers? Do you think your body doesn't have a ph level? While I agree there needs to be more studying done, tossing out the entire idea of balancing your body's ph is stupid.

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It's like saying you should look both ways before you cross the street only to make sure that Jesus is behind your shoulder.
There's no reason to start religion bashing here. Take that shit to the War Room or the OT.

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Originally Posted by shunyata View Post
The pH crowd is so retarded that they actually beleive it's a problem if your urine is acidic on a pH test. Even if they don't personally beleive that they'll use it as a reason why you need to buy their book or supplement protocol.
You're so retarded because you made an assertive statement but then you sort of contradicted it.

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Originally Posted by shunyata View Post
Some areas of the body are supposed to be acidic like the stomach, the urinary tract, urine in general, and the vagina. Blood pH is ~7.4 and if it varies significantly from that you have a medical problem, either acidosis or alkalosis. Alkalosis is not a goal to aim for.
Agreed, but, when looking at a typical diet, could the body's ph, specifically blood, be whacked?

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This is the exact reason that semen contains an alkalinity buffer so that sperm aren't damaged or killed by remaining uric acid in the urinary tract as the sperm exits the penis.
Fair enough. Maybe, the alkaline diet is a conspiracy to increase fertility? /gasp

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Vaginas are supposed to be acidic and it's a natural defense against infection.

Stomach uses HCL to break down food.
So that's the answer to a clean vagina then? Magic vag-acid? It's not enzymes and bacteria that create an acidic environment? Awesome! MAGIC VAG-ACID FOR THE MOTHERFUCKING WIN! WAR MAGIC VAG-ACID!

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Old 01-29-2013, 03:51 PM   #37
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I understand your anger, afterall you are faced with the choice of dismissing me, lashing out at me (which you've chosen), or accepting that you have either A) been scammed or are B) a paid schill helping to scam others.

But the whole "alkaline water" movement is all lies based upone the ability to make lots of money by exploiting the inability of most lay people to identify an incomplete and perverted understanding of basic chemistry and physiology.

That being said, I fully agree that a diet rich in fresh produce with moderate protein and fat that relies on drinking actual water instead of high sugar beverages like soda is generally healthy for a broad portion of the population. But that has almost nothing to do with the bodies pH buffer system.

Here's a great page written by a retired chemisty proffessor that goes into great detail to debunk myths about water. This link on the page specifically deals with the big fat scam that is alkaline water.

http://www.chem1.com/CQ/ionbunk.html

Here are some highlights.

On the "research" that demonstrates benefits to alkaline water consumption:

"A few articles on this subject have appeared in the scientific literature. Most are from Japan, and none that I have seen clearly states the composition of the water used— a failure that would probably guarantee rejection by a mainstream medical journal. An extensive list of similarly dubious articles can be found at this huckster site.

S. Okouchi et al: Water desirable for the human body in terms of oxidation-reduction potential (ORF) to pH relationship: J. Food Science 2002: 67(5) 1594-98.
Tashiro, H et al: Clinical evaluation of alkaline ionized water for abdominal complaints: Placebo controlled double blind tests (no reference, but see article here)
K. Hanaoka: Antioxidant effects of reduced water produced by electrolysis of sodium chloride solutions. J. Appl. Electrochem 2001: 31(12) 1307-13.
S. Shirahata et al: Electrolyzed-reduced water scavenges active oxygen species and protects DNA from oxidatioin damage. Biochem Biophys Res Comm 1997: 234 269-74
K. Kikuchi et al: Hydrogen particles and supersaturation in alkaline water from an alkali-ion-water-electrolyzer. J. Electroanalytical Chem 2001: 506(1) 22-27.
None of these papers is very convincing to me, and I doubt that they would have passed muster in the more prestigious journals— which may explain the rather strange publishing venues several of the authors have chosen which are quite outside the medical and physiological fields. One wonders if these journals have reviewers qualified to give papers on this subject adequate scrutiny. It's interesting to note that the last journal in the list also published the now-discredited article on cold fusion in the 1980s.

As far as I know, not a single account of a placebo-controlled clinical study on alkaline/ionized water in humans has ever eppeared in a mainstream, peer-reviewed medical journal."



On claims made by Kurzweil-Grossmanm, notable proponents of alkaline water:


K&G state that;

How can alkaline water with a pH of 9 or 10 be expected to affect the body when the pH of the stomach is 2 or less?

1 It is important to remember that hydrochloric acid is present in the stomach only when food is there.

2 If acid were present all the time, it would eat a hole in your stomach lining.


Our chemist rebuts with;

1The stomach always contains some gastric secretion and is always acidic; eating food stimulates the production of more acid.

2Nonsense; the stomach lining is protected by a mucous film which is continually replenished.



On "using up" the bodies buffer system, a false claim made earlier in this thread:

K&G "The body keeps blood pH stable by utilizing alkaline buffers to neutralize acidic liquids (such as colas, which have a pH as low as 2.5) and other acidic products and byproducts. But as the blood stream receives these acidic substances, the alkaline buffers get used up. Drinking alkaline water helps reduce the burden on the limited alkaline buffers which are needed for the body s natural detoxification processes."

Chemistry says otherwise "The principal buffer is bicarbonate which is continually generated when glucose, the body's immediate cellular energy source, is metabolized. Acids convert it into carbonic acid which breaks down to CO2 and water and is exhaled by the lungs. This is the main route of elimination of acids from the body, although the kidneys play a secondary role."



Some further information on the physiology of pH maintenence:

"The pH of intracellular bodily fluids such as blood is controlled by an exquisitely-balanced set of reactions involving removal of (acidic) carbon dioxide through the lungs, removal of (alkaline) ammonia through the kidneys, and the buffering action within the blood by bicarbonate, and to a smaller extent by phosphate and certain proteins. In the most important of these mechanisms, carbon dioxide produced by cell metabolism reacts with water to form carbonic acid H2CO3, and this reacts with carbonate in the blood to form bicarbonate

H2CO3 + CO32– → 2 HCO3–

which is carried by the blood to the lungs, where the carbon dioxide is then regenerated and expelled:

H2CO3 → CO2 + H2O

The pH of blood is especially critical and must be maintained within the range of about 7.35 - 7.45. If the blood pH falls outside this range the condition is known as acidosis or alkylosis. Temporary acidosis can be induced by holding your breath, preventing release of CO2. Temporary alkylosis can be induced by hyperventilation, causing excess release of CO2. Chronic acidosis or alkylosis can be very serious and is often associated with kidney failure.

The pH of ordinary drinking water will have little effect on the pH of the stomach contents because gastric fluid has an overwhelmingly low pH (Gastric fluid is essentially a dilute solution of hydrochloric acid.) Hundreds of millions of years of evolution have adapted humans to tolerate drinking waters having a fairly wide range of pH (5-8). Any water that is sufficiently alkaline to significantly affect gastric pH is unlikely to be considered potable by most people. Further, the enzymes that digest proteins in the stomach require a low pH in order to function properly, so if one were to ingest sufficient alkali to reduce gastric pH, it would also interfere with digestion.
If you really want (or need) to reduce gastric acidity, products such as Milk of Magnesia or Alka-Seltzer are cheaper and more effective than "water ionizer" machines. But bear in mind that acidosis and alkylosis are serious conditions that require medical intervention and can be properly diagnosed only by measurements of blood electrolyte and CO2 content."

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:34 PM   #38
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I understand your anger, afterall you are faced with the choice of dismissing me, lashing out at me (which you've chosen), or accepting that you have either A) been scammed or are B) a paid schill helping to scam others.
My jimmies remain firmly unrustled. If you think that's lashing out at you, you're clearly unfamiliar with internet arguments. It took you plagiarism and 400 words to argue with my 30 words...dude sup?

Re victim/schill: I'm not a victim and I don't care one way or the other but I like to see active debate with credible thought and respectable sources provided in back up to strongly voiced opinions.

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But the whole "alkaline water" movement is all lies based upone the ability to make lots of money by exploiting the inability of most lay people to identify an incomplete and perverted understanding of basic chemistry and physiology.
Maybe. Maybe not. YOU don't have enough to prove that. One chemistry professor explaining that the stomach is very low ph anyway isn't exactly "proof."

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That being said, I fully agree that a diet rich in fresh produce with moderate protein and fat that relies on drinking actual water instead of high sugar beverages like soda is generally healthy for a broad portion of the population. But that has almost nothing to do with the bodies pH buffer system.
So...the body does or does not have a ph buffer system? Can or can it not be manipulated to one's benefit through diet? What fucking side are you on? Make sense please. I'm tiring of your ill-explained shenanigans.

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Old 01-29-2013, 05:44 PM   #39
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So...the body does or does not have a ph buffer system? Can or can it not be manipulated to one's benefit through diet? What fucking side are you on? Make sense please. I'm tiring of your ill-explained shenanigans.
The body has a buffer system that primarily uses bicarb to deal with abnormally low pH. Bicarb is not a reasonably exhaustible resource.

Diet (outside of total starvation) does not have a significant effect on that buffer system. Diet is important for many reasons. pH balance is not one of them.

And linking a source while quoting exercepts from it is hardly plagiarism.


Above all my point is that while a healthy diet is important alkalinity is not a goal to strive towards and anyone who tries to convince you otherwise either bought a lie or is trying to sell you one.

And it does not matter that I'm using a single source when you realize that all of these facts about acids, bases, and the buffer system are corroborated by every accepted modern chemistry and physiology textbook in print.

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Old 01-29-2013, 07:02 PM   #40
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Your body doesn't maintain its' pH effortlessly. If your diet is too acidic your body is going to have to use acid neutralizing compounds to counteract it. If it runs out of compounds, which will surely happen if your diet is consistently too acidic, it's going to have to take calcium away from your bones and teeth to do it. It would not be surprising that it would cause your bones to fracture more easily. And if your body is continuously struggling to maintain it's proper pH, you open to the doors to all sorts of health problems ranging from heart disease to diabetes. You don't need to follow a diet solely based on alkaline foods. But most people have acid diets, so they need to make a conscious effort to bring it back in balance.
This is what I mean. You do not run out of bicarb. This is nonsense.

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