I dunno. I dont think you should necessarily turn your head with a punch, but maybe turn your shoulders with the punch. I'd imagine doing this would also put you at an advantage of not worrying about a second shot because you would be changing elevations.
I also think keeping your neck stiff is a bad idea as well. I think your muscles should be relaxed
I don't see why you can't do both but being able to do both might be hard because they seem like such differing approaches to adopt. Rolling with punches would be harder though because it relies on split second timing and seeing the punch coming in all the time because you need to judge it's velocity, where as bracing up you don't need to see the punch as long, you just flinch.
Rolling the punches relies on the principle of impulse. You reduce the impact force because you increase the contact time. Where as with bracing you increase the reaction force to the punch and increase the mass of the target body i.e. channel it through your entire body rather than just through your head thereby reducing the change in momentum.
__________________
Interviewer: 'He's (Dirrell) a good boxer'
Arthur Abraham: 'No. He's a good actor'
It's a tricky and advanced move. If you're not advanced, I wouldn't utilize it until you are comfortable, well rounded with your regular movement, and have the experience to feel how and when you can get away with it
In other words, it's not a fundamental technique (although it can work for some) and I definitely don't think it's for everyone
__________________
"I just loved watching Three Stooges in the mornings when I was a kid. Pretty much had to stop watching when they brought in Shemp-- that guy was an idiot!"
Kind of. Your example of Ali turning his head to avoid left hooks makes my point. It's how his feet and body are positioned that allow his head to swivel just enough to take the sting off the punch or for it to not land at all. One does not simply turn his head away from Mordor.
You can't just stand any ol' way trying turn your head away from punches and expect it to work. Take a square stance like Tyson's for example. It was prime for slipping laterally side to side, bobbing and rolling. Yet if he tried to turn from a punch like Ali, it would still hit him flush. The way his legs were set and body was positioned wouldn't have allowed for it. No matter how far he tried turning his head.
lol okay, so what point you trying to make? So far your only arguments against my points was "Not Really" and "Roberto Duran". So if it's not how the feet and body are positioned that allows for the head to successfully turn away from punches, then what is it?
I'd understand if you were some sort of dolt that couldn't elaborate on his thoughts. But you seem pretty informed and insightful, so go ahead and tell me where i was led astray. Unless you don't have the time for it, because i just know how all sherdog posters are stretched for time. It won't hurt my e-feels, i promise, and we can continue to be the best of internet friends.
Give me a clip of Duran turning his head from a punch, and i'll show you Duran being in position to be able to roll with it. If the point you're trying to make with "Roberto Duran" is that he stood like Tyson and was able to turn his head from punches. Well then i haven't seen it yet. Feel free to enlighten. But in fact i'd say he stood more like Ali most of the time, which allowed him to turn his head from punches the way he did. Now i say good day sir!
So I'm glad that the confusion on all this isn't really just in my head.
Anyone have a good technical way of explaining it?
Here is my best explaination. I'd love for some holes poked in it.
- You want to rotate at the hips and shoulders away from the punch in a manner that is similar to slipping. This creates some extra space so that the punch doesn't reach you as early as the puncher thinks it will, so some of the power has run out at the fuller extension. When the fist hits the face, you want to relax and turn your head with it, not because the act of turning your head does anything special, but that you again increase the distance the fist travels by a few inches, bleeding off a few more % points of power.
So I'm glad that the confusion on all this isn't really just in my head.
Anyone have a good technical way of explaining it?
Here is my best explaination. I'd love for some holes poked in it.
- You want to rotate at the hips and shoulders away from the punch in a manner that is similar to slipping. This creates some extra space so that the punch doesn't reach you as early as the puncher thinks it will, so some of the power has run out at the fuller extension. When the fist hits the face, you want to relax and turn your head with it, not because the act of turning your head does anything special, but that you again increase the distance the fist travels by a few inches, bleeding off a few more % points of power.
That make sense?
You got everything basically.
But think lower than the hips and shoulders. It starts from your feet. Where your feet are positioned determines where your head will be able to move. Like you said, it's not about turning your head. The turn of the head is just an extension of the movement, but not the move itself. Also, based on where your feet are, it will look like your head is floating in the center as a target, but it's never really in the center line to be hit by anything remotely looping, again because of how your feet change the angle of your body.
Take a look at the first Duran frame i posted.
-His opponent Moore sees Durans head as an easy target. It does in fact look like an easy target. Duran looks upright and his head is seemingly just floating there to be hit.
-Yet if you see in next frames the right hand never finds the target. Misses by a hair. In the last frame Moore has missed his punch and is over-extended, off balance and in no position to follow up. While Duran is set to counter.
It's my theory on why you see so many MMA fighters getting knocked out by such seemingly weak, looping girl punches. It's because of how most stand so square that it doesn't allow their head to turn anywhere to deflect some of the power of the shot, much less slip anything. The head just stays right there, grounded in the center, with no give, and absorbs the whole force of the punch.
Last edited by fightingrabbit; 01-25-2013 at 01:22 AM.
It's actually very effective to move with the punch. Boxers like Jake lamttoa, Ali, Roy J Jr and Chambers are great at it.
LaMotta used to give a pretty good analogy to explain its effectiveness.
Here's a more recent example off the top of my head. Kim is a predictable fighter but after the first round, I thought Beltran did an awesome of job of defending and pretty much predicting every punch Kim threw. Kim throws that big right hand but Beltran just turns his head and takes it like nothing.
