Phil Davis: "Wrestling is a much stronger art form than Brazilian jiu-jitsu."

[TheRassler]

Originally Posted by Deadbelly

dude, that guy you were talking to is the biggest troll on here! just forget him.

I could tell he was a troll, lol.

He kept arguing with me over some nonsense and after he realized he was wrong and how dumb his argument was, he faked a bedtime and "supposedly" went to bed to avoid sounding any more dumber. What a douche.

[Phoenix Down]

Originally Posted by TheRassler

He went to bed to avoid sounding any more dumber. What a douche.

....LOL....Oh fuck....Come'on man. You have to be self-trolling. A self troll for the ages.

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Originally Posted by The Reed

But when they fought the Jiu Jitsu guys they got beat with very few exceptions from guys like Rumina Sato and Sakuraba. They're the only two I can think of who were competitive against these Jiu Jitsu guys.

I honestly can't think of too many fights where it was a catch guy vs a BJJ guy though, it seemed to be mainly catch vs catch or catch vs judo in Pride and Shooto.

It would be interesting to see a list of catch vs BJJ and catch vs Sambo and Sambo vs BJJ. I would think BJJ would have the edge, there are a lot more guys doing BJJ then the other grappling arts.

[masterless]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Down

Fedor beat the shit out of every BJJ guy he faced in Pride (namely the most respected, revered and widely considered best in the world Big Nog) using Sambo / freestyle wrestling techniques.

I guess I'm confused....Are you trying to say that soccer kicks, knees to grounded opponents and 12-6 elbows actually hurt the wrestlers chance of winning? Which is why they are more dominant now then they were in Pride? LOL....

Yes you are confused.


I specifically stated that the early days of UFC and Pride where style vs style match ups included pure BJJ fighters and pure wrestlers BJJ was dominant. Those matches included the ability to use soccer kicks, knees to a grounded opponent, and 12-6 elbows but none of those techniques were able to benefit wrestlers and they lost.

You keep trying to change the perspective by mentioning fights and fighters that happened post unified rules but the fact is you cant change history and when these two styles clashed, in their purest forms, one was more dominant than the other.

[TheRassler]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Down

....LOL....Oh fuck....Come'on man. You have to be self-trolling. A self troll for the ages.

dude, go back a few pages and see what he wrote. After I pwned him, he ended the discussion halfway thru with "LMAO, p.s. goodnight". I am not making this up.

[bubkusjones]

Originally Posted by Phoenix Down

No one is making the argument that BJJ is useless to know, you do realize that?

We're saying that wrestling is the more effective practice, and a much more dangerous base to have in MMA.

And I'm not saying that wrestling is useless, either. What I am saying, and what many people are saying, is that the majority of the best wrestlers in MMA have spent years (in some cases over a decade) working on their Brazilian Jiu Jitsu as well.

You can't say that "most champions have wrestling, so wrestling is the best" when most of them have many years of BJJ education and experience as well (many of them having trained BJJ longer than they've been fighting professionally).

[masterless]

Originally Posted by mkess101

Really? Ken was tapped by Royce "a few different times"?

Hmm. Funny, I only remember one time, and that they fought to one draw.

My bad, I was thinking of Dan Severn tapping at UFC 4. Thats right, Gracie only beat Shamrock once, their other fight was that long boring draw. BTW, how many times did Shamrock beat Gracie again?

Also, Dan Severn was a pure wrestler and lost to Royce who was a pure BJJ artist. The evidence speaks for itself. When these arts are boiled down to their purest forms one dominates the other.

[VorTeX Raptor]

Not true. A pure BJJ fighter owns a pure wrestler, but who cares...

[Berdugo]

Originally Posted by masterless

Yes you are confused.


I specifically stated that the early days of UFC and Pride where style vs style match ups included pure BJJ fighters and pure wrestlers BJJ was dominant. Those matches included the ability to use soccer kicks, knees to a grounded opponent, and 12-6 elbows but none of those techniques were able to benefit wrestlers and they lost.

You keep trying to change the perspective by mentioning fights and fighters that happened post unified rules but the fact is you cant change history and when these two styles clashed, in their purest forms, one was more dominant than the other.

...and when karate first appeared in the US it had people memorized, now, not so much.

In the early UFC's, Severn (All-American and Olympic Alternate, but never NCAA Champ) was the only big name wrestler that fought.

The first ever Pride GP was one by Mark Coleman, a wrestler.

Those early showcasing's of BJJ are no different then the early 'hooker' days of wrestling.

[masterless]

Originally Posted by Berdugo

Sakuraba, Catch Wreslter, beat...

Royler Gracie
Royce Gracie
Renzo Gracie
Ryan Gracie


...and the 'great' 400-0 Rickson wouldn't fight him.

Yup, and a BJJ black belt by the name of Wanderlei Silva dominated Sakuraba 3 times. My argument still stands.