The Porcelain Doll Diet

[Seriously-Dead]

Originally Posted by ocean size

It was interesting enough for me to read the whole thing, not bad. But I think you are making a huge leap comparing "Progressive Overload" from resistance to that from dietary 'stress', I don't think you back it up enough for that to shake out as a workable conclusion. Despite that I think the overall point of the article stands, which to me was there is no need to be a dietary nazi or afraid of occasional indulgence, because it won't kill you. I just can't buy that it is actually better for you based on an author's admitted speculation.

Personally I think you can make a strong case for variety- but the analogy of shocking your endocrine system like it is a muscle to get stronger feels like a stretch.

The endocrine analogy is not a stretch at all. When you exercise, adiponectin secretion is suppressed. Your body compensates to this suppression by increasing the amount of adiponectin receptors in tissue, and when normal adiponectin levels return post-exercise adiponectin sensitivity is increased. The stress of exercise, which suppresses adiponectin levels, ultimately results in a positive adaptation of the endocrine system. This trait is similar to what's observed with leptin and tsh during starvation and post-feeding, it's almost a ubiquitous trait of the endocrine system.

Endocrine, skeletal, muscular, neural, immunological and god only knows what other systems benefit from stress, rest, and reconstruction. I'd even go as far as saying that this cycle could possibly be a ubiquitous trait of all adaptable complex systems (this is what the book Antifragile is about, and it's a fantastic read).

[ocean size]

Originally Posted by Seriously-Dead

The endocrine analogy is not a stretch at all. When you exercise, adiponectin secretion is suppressed. Your body compensates to this suppression by increasing the amount of adiponectin receptors in tissue, and when normal adiponectin levels return post-exercise adiponectin sensitivity is increased. The stress of exercise, which suppresses adiponectin levels, ultimately results in a positive adaptation of the endocrine system. This trait is similar to what's observed with leptin and tsh during starvation and post-feeding, it's almost a ubiquitous trait of the endocrine system.

Endocrine, skeletal, muscular, neural, immunological and god only knows what other systems benefit from stress, rest, and reconstruction. I'd even go as far as saying that this cycle could possibly be a ubiquitous trait of all adaptable complex systems (this is what the book Antifragile is about, and it's a fantastic read).

I didn't mean that exercise does not affect the endocrine system, but that you didn't sell the idea that dietary 'stress' in the form of cinnamon buns will affect the system the way a muscle responds to exercise.

Your grandmother sounds like a great lady.

[anaconda]

Originally Posted by ocean size

It was interesting enough for me to read the whole thing, not bad. But I think you are making a huge leap comparing "Progressive Overload" from resistance to that from dietary 'stress', I don't think you back it up enough for that to shake out as a workable conclusion. Despite that I think the overall point of the article stands, which to me was there is no need to be a dietary nazi or afraid of occasional indulgence, because it won't kill you. I just can't buy that it is actually better for you based on an author's admitted speculation.

Personally I think you can make a strong case for variety- but the analogy of shocking your endocrine system like it is a muscle to get stronger feels like a stretch.

But why couldn't it be?

I don't think his point is conclusively that it is the same, but that it would make sense if it is. And his anectodal, n=1 study (my personal one too, I might add) confirms this hypothesis.

I think it makes sense and definitely warrants more research though it is going to be a hard study to design, imo.

[ocean size]

Originally Posted by anaconda

But why couldn't it be?

I don't think his point is conclusively that it is the same, but that it would make sense if it is. And his anectodal, n=1 study (my personal one too, I might add) confirms this hypothesis.

I think it makes sense and definitely warrants more research though it is going to be a hard study to design, imo.

It definitely could be the case, and I personally think there could be something to variety in diets or 'even moderation in moderation' beyond just mixing it up so it doesn't get old (although I don't see it quite as TS) - I guess I was suggesting if that was the main analogy in the article, he might want to shore it up to reach audiences beyond those that are already on board.

[Modern Warrior1]

Love the article. I think most of us realize something like this after a couple of years. Of course, no one else can say it because it would cost them money.

[Seriously-Dead]

Originally Posted by ocean size

I didn't mean that exercise does not affect the endocrine system, but that you didn't sell the idea that dietary 'stress' in the form of cinnamon buns will affect the system the way a muscle responds to exercise.

Your grandmother sounds like a great lady.

I did my best with the lack of current research on the topic. I'm aware that no one has studied this yet. The best thing we have at the moment are studies on IF and carb backloading, showing improved health outcome when people introduce temporal variation in caloric and macronutrient intake.

I wasn't aiming to 100% convince anyone of anything. It's just food for thought at this point, something to tinker with if a person feels inclined.

[KILL KILL]

Originally Posted by ocean size

It definitely could be the case, and I personally think there could be something to variety in diets or 'even moderation in moderation' beyond just mixing it up so it doesn't get old (although I don't see it quite as TS) - I guess I was suggesting if that was the main analogy in the article, he might want to shore it up to reach audiences beyond those that are already on board.

I agree with this. Very well written though for sure.

[scottm]

Good stuff SD. As already noted, fascinating that many of us have gone through that same progression. I have just come full circle as well. After a nice rough stretch of beating myself up from high school to college to a few post college years, I went Paleo, then low carb, to "zone" with some IF thrown in sporadically. I'm tired of self stress creation over my own neuroticism.

[Sarumyan]

Sorry to disturb your little bro science club here, but ... you are missing the point. Food is simply fuel for out bodies, which allows us to enjoy life. The higher the quality of fuel we consume the higher the quality of life we are able to achieve. Of course, people all go out and enjoy things like alcohol, pizza and BBQ. And that is good for you once in a while if it helps to socialize with others.
What you are suggesting however, is a very slippery slope not everybody can follow. Humans spent couple of millions of years going from periods of famine to periods of abundance of food. When there is plenty of food available - we tend to stock up on fat to prepare for potential periods of famine ( or winter ). This is where insulin and blood sugar come into play. Most people will just keep increasing their intake of junk food, and their "periods of dieting rest" will be shorter and shorter. Which is exactly what happening around the world now. Everybody does try to eat healthy, and buy vegetables and etc. And then they buy cheesecakes and cereals, because " once in a while is ok". That raises their blood sugar, and they consume more. Vegetables and even fruits just don't provide the same "sugar high" anymore, so people slowly reduce them in the diet.
I think you are following the "what doesn't kill me - makes me stronger" mentality. But if it were true - Americans would be healthiest nation on earth, since yanks constantly get diet stress and live quite long. But we clearly see that is not the case.
Another thing, is the constant environmental stress average Joe undergoes these days - family, excessive amount of work, traffic, coffee, chemicals in drinking water, artificial hormones virtually in everything we consume... and ,of course, my personal favorites : the "healthy" dairy and grains. We are already under immense stress, and we are clearly loosing the battle considering by how much the rate of death from diseases increased over the last 60 years ( also around when the idiotic food pyramid was created ). The last thing we need is to recommend people to consume ice cream, cinnamon rolls and etc. and lead them to believe it is good for them. Generally following a smart low-carb diet , eliminates the need for junk food. That is the whole point of it. Yes, it is hard at first, but after a while, you will only crave nutrition, not sugar.
In all honestly, sounds like you are living on the health surplus you built while on Paleo diet.
The "article" itself is riddled with bad grammar and punctuation, and while you have all the right ingredients ( the hook, personal experience, a small story and etc. ) they are overextended, and feel like fillers. Frankly, your article reads like a blog entry. It was interesting to read though.

[anaconda]

Wow. What an intelligent and well thought out critique!

Seriously man give it a rest. You missed the whole damn point.

And you criticizing someone for grammar is just ludicrous