My personal theory on the difference is bone density.
Think of it like being hit with a whiffle ball bat or a wooden baseball bat. You can whack me with that whiffle bat at 100 mph and I'll probably just look at you weird, but pop me with that wood bat even lightly and I'll be feeling it for sure.
Disclaimer: I have absolutely no knowledge of this shit scientifically, but it sure makes sense to me so I go with it.
You should also account for weight as well right? A whiffle bat is less dense but its also a lot lighter. The material is very different as well.
damn i can't believe somebody said TYSON was weak/small and got into boxing because of bullying... let alone comparing him to GSP. I guess knocking out elderly woman and mugging them is being bullied during youth? Tyson was also almost fully grown by the age of 12, and Cus actually made him start lifting weights heavily to prevent him from getting taller.
For the record, Tyson is one of my heroes, but I just had to clarify that.
Also, i'll take Tyson's and Freddie Roach's words over 99.9% of sherdog. Both believe punchers are born.
By adopting the proper techniques needed in punching, a fighter can maximize the amount of power in their punches AS compared to before they started training, but there will be a different starting point and ceiling for each individual as others in this thread have mentioned.
damn i can't believe somebody said tyson was weak/small and got into boxing because of bullying... Let alone comparing him to gsp. I guess knocking out elderly woman and mugging them is being bullied during youth? tyson was also almost fully grown by the age of 12, and cus actually made him start lifting weights heavily to prevent him from getting taller.
for the record, tyson is one of my heroes, but i just had to clarify that.
Also, i'll take tyson's and freddie roach's words over 99.9% of sherdog. Both believe punchers are born.
By adopting the proper techniques needed in punching, a fighter can maximize the amount of power in their punches as compared to before they started training, but there will be a different starting point and ceiling for each individual as others in this thread have mentioned.
what?
__________________
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity
the rumor about mike tyson was he was already a big kid by the age of 12 or 13.
cus d'amato supposedly did things to try to stunt his growth (i have no idea why). he would make him run his miles with 30-40lbs of weight. that's the rumor.
i doubt any of it is true though...
but from what i read, he hardly did any weight lifting under cus. he did shrugs with weights but everything else was body exercises (pushups, situps, pullups, etc).. i believe the majority of his power was built on continuous heavy bag training (and proper punching technique of course). cus would gradually increase the weight of the bag for tyson over time.
dude used to train 7 straight days per week. to be a monster you gotta train like one...
the rumor about mike tyson was he was already a big kid by the age of 12 or 13.
cus d'amato supposedly did things to try to stunt his growth (i have no idea why). he would make him run his miles with 30-40lbs of weight. that's the rumor.
i doubt any of it is true though...
but from what i read, he hardly did any weight lifting under cus. he did shrugs with weights but everything else was body exercises (pushups, situps, pullups, etc).. i believe the majority of his power was built on continuous heavy bag training (and proper punching technique of course). cus would gradually increase the weight of the bag for tyson over time.
dude used to train 7 straight days per week. to be a monster you gotta train like one...
yeah theres no hardcore proof, but i was told Cus did that because his teaching system was built around being the shorter, in-fighter with the peek-a-boo guard and hooks.
It's like saying Tiger Woods was better because he was better.
You can't explain a concept by just repeating it.
this thread is funny, the last naseem hamed fight i watched, where he was fighting augie sanchez, after the fight, the commentators talk about him and tiger woods. anyways.... naseem hamed has excellent balance.
i personally believe you are born with it... lucky for me i punch HARD! even when i throw 50% i stagger guys in sparring. that being said, a lot of a punch is not just about the power, it's about the angle, and more importantly THE TIMING! if a guy's head is moving towards the right and your fist is moving towards the left and they connect at the right place... u can throw at 10% and cause some problems....
the more rounds i sparred, the more my distance and timing clicked, i could use less energy and less movement... I'm a freestyle martial artist first but I really love boxing.... it has taught me so much ... it's all about EFFECIENCY. the less movement the better.
__________________
Any time y'all wanna see me again, rewind this track right here, close your eyes and picture me rollin'
I'd agree with NLM that his balance was awful a lot of times, he threw shots from a variety of angles & positions that did compromise his balance, not enough to make him fall - but I disagree with NLM saying it was shit boxing technique - unorthodox yes - if it was shit like NLM said it wouldn't have worked - unorthodox from the traditional stand-point yes - not shit because it worked pretty well for him throughout his career. Of course though his athleticism & physical attributes had alot to do with it - but this is usually the case with most fighters - nearly every fighter will use his athleticism or attributes when fighting.
Would I teach someone his way of boxing if I was a qualified boxing instructor - probably not - because it's not the norm & not everyone has that ability - but not because it's against traditional boxing technique ---- the fact that it is, means there is stuff outside of the traditional mindset that is effective & can be made to work - to me anything that is effective shouldn't be discarded.
I agree man! here's a real life example from me... growing up I played the upright bass, the giant cello for people who are having trouble picturing what I'm talking about. I always was told, keep your elbow up! keep it up! my family was notorious for dropping our elbows. Keeping the elbow up was crucial for proper finger positioning on the strings. I would say to my mom "but this amazing bassist doesn't keep his elbows up when he plays" and my mom would say "when you can play like him, then you can drop your elbows"
__________________
Any time y'all wanna see me again, rewind this track right here, close your eyes and picture me rollin'
Naseem Hamed did what he did because he understands distance and angles. Most people think boxing is a match of I block your punch/you block my punch. But that's not what's really going on in the ring. He understood that if you don't stand in front of a guy they can't hit you so to him he kept it really simple. If you come in he is going to counter you and if you don't he is going to pot shot you and against 99.9% of boxers that works. Now to the whole reflexes argument, again it's a misleading argument to make because speed is important in boxing and that's a fact that the whole 'reflexe' argument tries to disprove but it's completely besides the point, you train your reflexes, that's the whole reason you train.
I mean that would be like saying steve jobs is trash and has no idea how to make money, but he has money because he has "genetics" (if you read his biography, he dropped out of university, he was doing a arts degree, and he went to india and practiced meditation walking around in sandals with no money before he came back and started his business in his parent's garage, if he wanted to be like everybody else he never would have been a billionaire, he never would have accomplished anything and nobody would even know who he is). Like hamed is trash and he has "reflexes". No he's not trash because if he was trash then he wouldn't have made a lot of money boxing. He's living proof that angles, distance, handpeed and punching power alone is enough to win a title. You don't even need to block a single punch and you can still win. Now you train handspeed, you train punching power, you train boxing knowledge. It's like people think wrestling is just "I do double leg take down, you sprawl, you do a double leg, I sprawl" and it's nothing like that at all.
Mohamed ali worked off this principle a lot of just keeping it simple, just distance and angles and a jab. A lot people think this is complicated boxing but it's not, it's really the simplest form of boxing there is. Now you need to have talent to learn how to box, that's just a fact, most people could train a 100 years and still not last a round with hamed, so does that mean that all boxing training is useless and we should all just give up, NO, it's just a fact that we're not born equal, but I have a belief, if it works in the ring, it's because it works period and you can make it work too if you know how and train it enough, you might not make it work against someone who's better than you but that's just like anything.
Pick a style a pro uses and train it, people just get these misconceptions that you have to train like everybody else, that you have to be like everybody else, if we all did that we would never have any inventors, nobody would ever do anything incredible, we would all be mediocre because nobody would dare to be different. We would just stand in front of each other and never learn anything. I believe the more you learn about boxing the better, learn everything, don't limit yourself to one style of fighting, learn them all. Even peekaboo boxing, I've been looking into to that recently and it's really interesting. A lot of it is different and not according to the norm, defense based on slipping punches, a lot of head movement, but that doesn't mean it doesn't work. Being open minded in boxing really goes a long way towards becoming a better boxer.
Now at the same time there's always consequences to our actions and each style has it's pros and cons so we also need to keep that in mind when we have our own styles but that doesn't mean that we all supposed to fight the same way.
Also, on the topic of the thread, talent is talent and some people do punch harder than others. Hamed was one of these people. He could knock you out in the blink of an eye, but he also trained hard to get to that level. Now look at this highlight, all these people have their hands up but it doesn't stop them from getting knocked out, that's because all the blocking in the world isn't going to save you against a guy who gets boxing more than you and boxes better than you do, of course he's flamboyant and he's provocative but that doesn't mean he doesn't understand boxing:
this guy had his hands down and it didn't stop him from knocking people out, again because he understands the true meaning of boxing isn't just you block a punch I block a punch, he knows its the details that really matters, if all you know is blocking punches then you're just going to be a human punching bag for this guy, half these guys are blocking his punches before they get knocked out, and I think foreman's a pretty good fighter so if blocking a punch is so powerful why are these guys getting knocked out? Shouldn't they be exposing his supposed inferior style of fighting?
Blocking punches works but only as far as you train to get better at boxing, it's not going to magically make you invincible because your arms are up. Anybody can have reflexes, I can tell when I see people box that their technique is lacking, I know if they trained the right way they would be faster, their just not training the right way and they don't get angles so they should give in to this magical thinking that it's because they don't have the genetics and that the best they can do is be a bobble head for fighters that get the ideas behind boxing and they never take the time to actually learn how to be like those guys because they don't believe they ever will.
i punch HARD! even when i throw 50% i stagger guys in sparring. that being said, a lot of a punch is not just about the power, it's about the angle, and more importantly THE TIMING! if a guy's head is moving towards the right and your fist is moving towards the left and they connect at the right place... u can throw at 10% and cause some problems....
