Muhammad Ali: I Am the Greatest

[LogicalInsanity]

Originally Posted by n...not crazy

Lennox would mop the floor with him, it's true.

Lmao...

[Seano]

Originally Posted by HUNTERMANIA

You're clearly ignorant of the facts or simply extremely biased for some reason.

The guy says "No Viet Cong ever called me n*gger," and we're saying he didn't use race as an excuse? If you guys can't understand what he meant by that statement, I don't know how to continue this conversation.


Explain to me exactly what I'm ignorant of friend. I know the Ali story pretty well IMO. The man was an incredibly outspoken racist person. A clear, CLEAR bigot.

I'm not biased other than the fact that I think a person can be racist even if he's not white.

[Seano]

Originally Posted by LogicalInsanity

Lmao...

Not that laughable IMO. Lewis > Ken Norton by a long shot. I'd favor Ali but Ali could lose fights.

[LogicalInsanity]

Originally Posted by Seano

The guy says "No Viet Cong ever called me n*gger," and we're saying he didn't use race as an excuse? If you guys can't understand what he meant by that statement, I don't know how to continue this conversation.


.

Actually, it's you who seems to struggle with the significance and meaning of this statement.

[Seano]

Originally Posted by LogicalInsanity

Actually, it's you who seems to struggle with the significance and meaning of this statement.

Explain it and I'll give you my interpretation, professor.

He used the word as a way to sensationalize his belief and use a boogey man as a scape goat. Whatever his belief (whatever we assume his belief) was, he used race as a way to rationalize it. Like he did with most of the dumb shit that came out of his mouth.

He didn't say, "I have nothing against those people," or "I don't believe in war." He used a hot button word to get people to rally along with him because he didn't want to fight.

He knew what he was saying, he was coached to say it.

[LogicalInsanity]

Originally Posted by Seano

Explain it and I'll give you my interpretation, professor.

He used the word as a way to sensationalize his belief and use a boogey man as a scape goat. Whatever his belief (whatever we assume his belief) was, he used race as a way to rationalize it. Like he did with most of the dumb shit that came out of his mouth.

He didn't say, "I have nothing against those people," or "I don't believe in war." He used a hot button word to get people to rally along with him because he didn't want to fight.

He knew what he was saying, he was coached to say it.

Yes, Ali did say, "I was against the war and I have nothing against those people."

"Vietcong never called me ni66er" was just more succinct and inflammatory, yes.

Muhammad Ali entered the Nation of Islam because of all the injustices he saw perpetrated against black Americans...keep in mind, this is the height of Jim Crow, racism in the south, where lynching was still common, where 4 African American girls died in a fire bombing in the South, where the suspect in the murder of Medger Evers is actually considered a hero to many. (keep in mind how long it took to actually convict him)

Would have it been more politically correct if Ali did what Joe Louis did during WWII?
Put on shows for the servicemen and free bouts? Yes, of course...(the US Government would later repay Joe Louis by having the IRS hound him the rest of his life)

But the sheer arrogance of a country to force conscription of black Americans, a country that still treated them as second class citizens in many areas to go 7000 miles away to fight and kill the yellow man in a bullshit war for bull shit reasons. (domino theory, LOL)

Why the fu*k would you fight for a country that denigrated your people?

I don't agree with all of Ali's statements, and he took his trolling with Joe Frazier too far...but I understand 100 percent, his position against the Vietnam War...

[Seano]

Muhammad Ali entered the Nation of Islam because of all the injustices he saw perpetrated against black Americans

The south vietnamese know a little about injustice.

[mozfonky]

Ali's given reasons as you know is that as a follower of Elijah muhammad his religion was against war. Other people have blatantly said he was a coward, the guy that did the Ali/Cosell book a few years ago insinuated it throughout the book. Larry Holmes always thought that was why he wanted to take so much punishment later on, to prove his bravery. Like any great man, we see him all different ways. I think it really just boils down to that very first statement he made when the newspapermen first grilled him about vietnam "I ain't got nothin' against no viet cong". Others have gone as far as to say that Ali was fearful of being killed by the muslims if he didn't listen "you see what they did to malcolm", who knows. I know this, you guys aren't going to change minds of fans, after all what kind of fan would that be. People call Elvis a racist to this day for things he probably didn't even say, doesn't matter a bit to the millions of his fans.

[Seano]

When exactly did Ali "find that religion?" Somewhere around the time he was drafted wasn't it?

[mozfonky]

Originally Posted by Seano

When exactly did Ali "find that religion?" Somewhere around the time he was drafted wasn't it?

no, he actually had been involved about two years or so before he won the Liston fight and I think it was about two years after he announced he was muslim when they really began to hound him. First time he took the iq test he flunked but then the military lowered the standards (you know the old quote "I said I was the greatest, never said I was the smartest") Interestingly, Bruce Lee also was an army reject, John Wayne avoided the draft in WW2 as did Frank Sinatra. Dempsey was hated for being a dodger but later served in ww2. The state as god is an interesting phenomena in itself. I wouldn't necessarily fight for a country just because I was born there. Only a fool would just do what he was told. And yes, you could say Muhammad was a fool for Elijah and he was (in my opinion), truth is, someone's always trying to pull that on someone.