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Old 01-01-2013, 10:27 AM   #1
iama
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How long do you have to train 'liss' cardio before moving on..

I looked through the faq and didnt see anything about this.

Basically I've been doing Judo for a little while now plus weight training, my cardio isnt good but I'm not a bum who never gets any form of cardio at all. Anyway I wonder if I do liss how long before I can do interval type stuff. Or could I just go straight into fartlek training and build from there without the 40 minute type stuff?

Sorry if this has been covered already.

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Old 01-01-2013, 10:42 AM   #2
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My understanding of it is that the anaerobic systems don't adapt well to long term development. You can do sprints and HIIT e.c.t. as much as you like, but the tabbata study showed that there were rapid gains for 6 weeks and then they stopped. This (I think) is because most (not all) anaerobic adaptations are in the CNS, not the muscles or heart so they adapt very quickly to full potential given enough stimulus.

The aerobic system on the other hand can develop for as long as you keep trying to develop it. The problem is fighters need a mix of both. I guess what you do depends on your training schedule, but in a perect world you would work on your aerobic system continually up untill a few months before a fight. From then you would work on threshold work, or medium intensity aerobic adaptions, and then in the last 8 weeks work on anaerobic adaptations. Then go back and start again. The problem is this kind of periodization is geared towards athletes with an off season to work it in. If your competing every weekend its not going to work.

Think of your LISS as kind of like the volume control on your computer. You can adjust the volume of itunes or the internet with the sliders, but you cant ever get them above the top of the slider. Your aerobic system is like the top of that slider. On its own it wont make anything louder (or you preform much better) but it then means you can raise your other attributes by working on them. I hope that makes sense.

The other way to look at it is to do LISS until your aerobic system is no longer a weak point.

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Old 01-01-2013, 10:45 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conditioning FAQ version 2.1 View Post
Q: I've been training and/or doing various sports on and off for years. How do I know if I have a good aerobic base?

A: The aerobic capacity is usually estimated via measuring your VO2max through direct (graded tests with inhaled/exhaled gasses measurements) or indirect (field tests, like the Beep Test or the Cooper test) ergometric tests, and comparing that with normative data for your age/gender and sport.

An easier way to get a rough idea of your aerobic capacity is through practical means. For instance, if you can spar/do bag work for multiple rounds at a 50-60% intensity without getting too winded, or if you can run 8km at/under 40 mins without coming to the verge of death, then your aerobic base is decent.

You can get a very rough indication of your aerobic capacity through your resting heart rate (generally the lower your RHR, the higher your stroke volume); athletes with good aerobic capacity tend to have a RHR under 60 bmp (athletes in endurance sports can get lower than 40 bmp). RHR is in no way a precise indication, but if your RHR is 80 then you'd probably benefit from steady-state work.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:04 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by bowlie View Post
My understanding of it is that the anaerobic systems don't adapt well to long term development. You can do sprints and HIIT e.c.t. as much as you like, but the tabbata study showed that there were rapid gains for 6 weeks and then they stopped. This (I think) is because most (not all) anaerobic adaptations are in the CNS, not the muscles or heart so they adapt very quickly to full potential given enough stimulus.

The aerobic system on the other hand can develop for as long as you keep trying to develop it. The problem is fighters need a mix of both. I guess what you do depends on your training schedule, but in a perect world you would work on your aerobic system continually up untill a few months before a fight. From then you would work on threshold work, or medium intensity aerobic adaptions, and then in the last 8 weeks work on anaerobic adaptations. Then go back and start again. The problem is this kind of periodization is geared towards athletes with an off season to work it in. If your competing every weekend its not going to work.

Think of your LISS as kind of like the volume control on your computer. You can adjust the volume of itunes or the internet with the sliders, but you cant ever get them above the top of the slider. Your aerobic system is like the top of that slider. On its own it wont make anything louder (or you preform much better) but it then means you can raise your other attributes by working on them. I hope that makes sense.

The other way to look at it is to do LISS until your aerobic system is no longer a weak point.
Thanks that was helpful.

I cant run regularly it bludgeons my knees, so most of the cardio I do will be on a rowing machine, the trouble with those is long distance stuff becomes difficult unless you lower the resistance to the bottom level. So for the safety of my knees I think I may run once a week 30/40 minutes and row once a week doing fartlek type training.

The more I try and learn about cardio improvment, the more I get confused and bewildered so I think I'm just gonna give it all a shot and see how it goes.

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Old 01-01-2013, 11:10 AM   #5
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I find that even jogging is too high intensity for LISS type training, so I cycle. I worked up to 3 hour sessions last summer and its very easy on the joints. Another option is to run on the ball of your foot not your heel, that cleared up my shin splints/knee problems.

This is a pretty good article on the subject.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/tra...ng-part-1.html
Its heavy going, but explains it better than I can

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Old 01-01-2013, 11:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlie View Post
I find that even jogging is too high intensity for LISS type training, so I cycle. I worked up to 3 hour sessions last summer and its very easy on the joints. Another option is to run on the ball of your foot not your heel, that cleared up my shin splints/knee problems.

This is a pretty good article on the subject.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/tra...ng-part-1.html
Its heavy going, but explains it better than I can
After injury my physio told me my injury was probably to with my balance and partly to do with the fact I never step off the balls of my feet so I'll be sure to try that. Is twice a week enough to make improvements (on top of judo+weights)

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Old 01-01-2013, 11:22 AM   #7
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It all depends on how advanced you are. To begin with yeah thats fine. As you advance you will need to do it for longer or more often or both to improve. Just like when weight training you need to increase the weight

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Old 01-01-2013, 11:31 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by bowlie View Post
It all depends on how advanced you are. To begin with yeah thats fine. As you advance you will need to do it for longer or more often or both to improve. Just like when weight training you need to increase the weight
Cheers for the help, I have acsess to a rowing machine and I've found a booklet for it that has progressive workouts beginners, intermediate and advanced I'l follow that twice a week and I'll see where it takes me.

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Old 01-02-2013, 01:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bowlie View Post
I find that even jogging is too high intensity for LISS type training, so I cycle. I worked up to 3 hour sessions last summer and its very easy on the joints. Another option is to run on the ball of your foot not your heel, that cleared up my shin splints/knee problems.

This is a pretty good article on the subject.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/tra...ng-part-1.html
Its heavy going, but explains it better than I can
Not sure if you accidentally a comma. Do you mean your sessions last 3 hours? How do you not die of boredom or starvation?

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Old 01-02-2013, 04:09 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Linds View Post
Not sure if you accidentally a comma. Do you mean your sessions last 3 hours? How do you not die of boredom or starvation?
Yeah 3 hours or around that. I didn't get bored because I would be outside in the fresh air exploring new places. I would basically cycle somewhere I didnt know, and it would be an adventure finding my way home. I wasnt a fast cycler, but could cover about 25 miles so I wound up in pretty interesting places. I usually took a banana or three, or birthday cake once. My RHR dropped by about 8 BPM over the summer, although If I had done it 3 times a week im sure I would have seen more improvements. The biggest change was I lost quite abit of weight. LISS is great for fat loss apparently.

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