IIRC, Tyson did 115kg for reps the first time he ever Benched; he was a teenager at the time.
As DrBdan and I have both pointed out: it's best not to over-think Strength Training by trying to use specific exercises to replicate one's Sport. While there certainly is a place for Sports specific training, at the level we are currently discussing TS should simply get stronger and use the increased strength through the techniques of his Sport.
With all due respect, I believe that maybe it would be smart to think a little bit further than "just do 5/3/1 or Starting Strength, they are in the FAQ and have been proven again and again to be great programs for bulking up".
I'm sure that you're a more experienced power lifter than I am a boxer (maybe you even are a more experienced boxer than me but live by a completely different training philosophy, who knows). So I definitely don't want to be rude.
But if you give an argument for why your favorite exercise is great for boxing ("it's good for hooks!") and I explain why this is not particularly much the case, then just trying to end the conversation by referring to the futility of "over-thinking" stuff sounds rather stubborn to me. Again, I don't want to be rude. I just think it's rather stubborn.
No offense taken. If you read my first post, you'll see that I advised the TS to always prioritize Boxing over Strength Training. But if he has the time to Lift and, more importantly, to recover without it effecting his Boxing training, then a Keep It Simple, Stupid program like 5/3/1 is probably the way to go. And, "bulking up" is more a dependent on diet than training.
When it comes to Combat Sports, strength is like money; you should never be obsessed with gaining it, but it is a nice thing to have.
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Captain of Team Blitzkrieg: Squatr Bowl Champions 2012
No offense taken. If you read my first post, you'll see that I advised the TS to always prioritize Boxing over Strength Training. But if he has the time to Lift and, more importantly, to recover without it effecting his Boxing training, then a Keep It Simple, Stupid program like 5/3/1 is probably the way to go. And, "bulking up" is more a dependent on diet than training.
When it comes to Combat Sports, strength is like money; you should never be obsessed with gaining it, but it is a nice thing to have.
Fair enough. This makes sense to me, so I'll give you the last word
A while ago I found an article that took boxers and somehow measured the amount that each muscle contributed to a punch. From what I remember I believe that the legs were highest with 30%, core a close second and arms lowest with 10%. I'll try to find the article to clarify though.
A while ago I found an article that took boxers and somehow measured the amount that each muscle contributed to a punch. From what I remember I believe that the legs were highest with 30%, core a close second and arms lowest with 10%. I'll try to find the article to clarify though.
Can they measure how much of the force being produced broken down by muscle? I've only ever seen measuring the activation of each muscle in relation to another exercise in EMG studies.
Can they measure how much of the force being produced broken down by muscle? I've only ever seen measuring the activation of each muscle in relation to another exercise in EMG studies.
I believe it may have been muscular activation. I just looked for the study and couldn't find it, although I definitely remember the majority coming from legs and core and least coming from arms, as the point of it was to disprove the idea that a big bench or huge arms equal a big punch. Then again since I can't find it, there's really no way of determining its validity.
I'm gonna take this and run. I've boxed for 14 years and I'm a technique nazi.
There are some points I'd like to make before getting into detail...
A lot of these number, ideas, and statistics are under the assumption that boxers are throwing picture perfect punches every time. This is not a reality. There are plenty of "arm punches" and "slapping" hooks thrown that don't utilize rotational force from the hips.
The majority of the contribution of the pectoral muscle into a hook, or any punch, has a very limited ROM. The shoulder is often turned to the opponent... meaning the arm is extended almost straight out from body (at a perfect 90 degree angle)... this is where the action happens.
EVERY muscle involved in the motion is a contributing factor. Think of them being a chain, no link should be weak.
The magic happens on impact, BUT, the body should still have enough force to continue to accelerate through the target... especially with body punches. During hooks the major lever when the punch makes contact is the pec and shoulder. You need a strong lever otherwise you're basically throwing the dead weight of your arm against your opponent. If you look at the angle of the body during a hook in a freeze frame (upon impact)... it would appear as though you were trying to do a pushup... on your opponent's face. Hence why pushups are such a common exercise for the sport. Tried and true.
It is absolutely beneficial to do resistance training including the pectorals for the sport of boxing.
For further speculation, look at professional fighting and how much "wrestling" there is. Also (and you would need to fight to know this) if you can "pull" your opponent off balance with your punch you have an advantage, having strong pecs helps this.
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May God have mercy upon my enemies, because I won't.
-George S. Patton
The point that it is good to be strong for sports providing it doesn't detract from skills training has been made. So I'll just add some often overlooked features of Strength training for Sports and punching power.
Punching power is derived from your ability to maintain grip with the ground (hence why some speculate that you see bigger "shots" in boxing: the shoes).
You must generate power through the lower body whilst gripping the ground through rotation, transferring that force through the core to the upper body. Moreover you must to this very quickly.
To do this optimally, you need good kinaesthetic awareness and the ability to maintain the correct positions for extended periods of time.
So when it comes to boxing, Strength work should serve multiple purposes:
1. Making you stronger.
2. Reducing your chance of injury.
3. Helping to address any muscular imbalances that make performing techniques difficult.
There's a pretty simple formula for this. Structure your Strength sessions as follows:
1. Warm-Up - including activation exercises and foam rolling.
2. Perform major compound lifts - 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps.
3. Finish with some exercises that will help address any postural issues you may have - e.g. Facepulls, YTWs, external rotations, side lying leg raises, etc.
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It's all in the game - Traditional West Baltimore.
Rossboxing is a great source, he's super hardcore.
Any of the MMA conditioning books will also serve you well.
Run thru the FAQ again.
I do a lot of HIIT with sport specific motions (like 1-2 punching, stance drills, burpees) and other stuff like skipping rope in a running fashion with high knees, sprinting/jogging intervals, etc.
One of my current favorites is to get on the bag (heavier is better) and throw 4 straight punches (lead, power, lead, power or L,R,L,R if you're orthodox, you get it...) at full length. Don't creep forward onto your front foot to counter-act the bag, just snap your punches at your max distance. The bag will swing away after the combination, when it swings back, drop 4 more. Focus on speed and reach, not power. This one makes me sick to my stomach after the 3rd round, I usually have to take a break afterwards. A pro taught me, he does like 5 or 6 rounds of this with a hook on the end. He claims he's "out of shape".
I'm gonna take this and run. I've boxed for 14 years and I'm a technique nazi.
There are some points I'd like to make before getting into detail...
A lot of these number, ideas, and statistics are under the assumption that boxers are throwing picture perfect punches every time. This is not a reality. There are plenty of "arm punches" and "slapping" hooks thrown that don't utilize rotational force from the hips.
The majority of the contribution of the pectoral muscle into a hook, or any punch, has a very limited ROM. The shoulder is often turned to the opponent... meaning the arm is extended almost straight out from body (at a perfect 90 degree angle)... this is where the action happens.
EVERY muscle involved in the motion is a contributing factor. Think of them being a chain, no link should be weak.
The magic happens on impact, BUT, the body should still have enough force to continue to accelerate through the target... especially with body punches. During hooks the major lever when the punch makes contact is the pec and shoulder. You need a strong lever otherwise you're basically throwing the dead weight of your arm against your opponent. If you look at the angle of the body during a hook in a freeze frame (upon impact)... it would appear as though you were trying to do a pushup... on your opponent's face. Hence why pushups are such a common exercise for the sport. Tried and true.
It is absolutely beneficial to do resistance training including the pectorals for the sport of boxing.
For further speculation, look at professional fighting and how much "wrestling" there is. Also (and you would need to fight to know this) if you can "pull" your opponent off balance with your punch you have an advantage, having strong pecs helps this.
I know this thead is about boxing, but in MMA when clinching or during ground and pounds you're often in a position where you can't put your hips into your shots, in those cases pectoral/shoulder/arm strength is also very significant.
