was it the decline or better competition?

[eXtv]

Originally Posted by TheComebackKid

Theres nothing special about Coleman and Randleman in 2004 and 2005. Barnett was a great win but thats about it.

Why was there "nothing special" about Coleman when Fedor fought him the first time?

He was 7-1 in his last eight matches going into the Fedor fight, his only loss coming to the #1 Ranked HW on the planet at the time (Nog).

[SeattleFightFan]

Originally Posted by kflo

You're simply not going to win 35 fights in a row fighting guys as dangerous as werdum, bigfoot and hendo. He wasn't at his best, and they are fuckin dangerous, among the most dangerous guys for him he fought his whole career. He's still,imo, a top hw. Shame he retired.

which is why one HAS TO compare fighters against fighters of the same era, not across eras. and comparing 2000-2008 Fedor to 2009-2012 fighters isn't legit. we should compare him to fighters from 2000-2008.

for all the talk about "Pride cans", UFC's best were beating up dudes named Tra, Eilers, and Correira. and later in their careers, Fedor did beat the best guys the UFC had from 2002-2006.

historically this debate has been "who is better; mid-00 UFC HW's or mid-00 Pride HW's". i guess if folks are now comparing Pride fighters to current UFC fighters, the first question is, by definition, answered.

well, at least we settled that but let's not pretend that the parameters of the question/debate didn't change, eh folks? merely by phrasing the question "who is better, Fedor or current UFC fighters", the first question "who was better, Pride or 2000-2007 UFC fighters" is answered.

meanwhile, for faksake none of this matters. let's just hope Cain/JDS/AO/Werdum/Cormier have some battles and one or 3 of em reach the same pinnacles that Fedor/CC/Nog did!!! except Werdum/AO; obviously no one wants that again.

[priderulez]

I agree, there is better competition at HW nowadays, but Fedor never really faced it. The evolution of the sport would only be legit argument if he had lost to JDS or Cain or whatever. He lost to guys he would have killed back in the Pride days. Ant thats for sure.

As to the evolution of the sport- Big Nog (we all know how he did against Fedor) almost defeated Mir, who not that long ago fought for the HW title.

As many already pointed out loss of focus, old training methods etc. etc. were the real reasons Fedor lost it.

Its actually pretty annoying when ppl on this forum act as if prime Fedor wouldnt even be in the top 10 HW if he was fighting nowadays. Get real

[Jackonflame]

It was the cage.

He didn't adapt to being locked inside a cage.

He always looked so out of place

[The Coolman]

Joint combination of better competition, evolution of the overall game, and transition from ring to cage (yes this does make a difference).

[TheComebackKid]

Originally Posted by eXtv

Why was there "nothing special" about Coleman when Fedor fought him the first time?

He was 7-1 in his last eight matches going into the Fedor fight, his only loss coming to the #1 Ranked HW on the planet at the time (Nog).

Because he was 40 yrs old and only had 1 fight in the previous 3 yrs? Or that he went 3-4 after Fedor?

[kflo]

Originally Posted by SeattleFightFan

which is why one HAS TO compare fighters against fighters of the same era, not across eras. and comparing 2000-2008 Fedor to 2009-2012 fighters isn't legit. we should compare him to fighters from 2000-2008.

for all the talk about "Pride cans", UFC's best were beating up dudes named Tra, Eilers, and Correira. and later in their careers, Fedor did beat the best guys the UFC had from 2002-2006.

historically this debate has been "who is better; mid-00 UFC HW's or mid-00 Pride HW's". i guess if folks are now comparing Pride fighters to current UFC fighters, the first question is, by definition, answered.

well, at least we settled that but let's not pretend that the parameters of the question/debate didn't change, eh folks? merely by phrasing the question "who is better, Fedor or current UFC fighters", the first question "who was better, Pride or 2000-2007 UFC fighters" is answered.

meanwhile, for faksake none of this matters. let's just hope Cain/JDS/AO/Werdum/Cormier have some battles and one or 3 of em reach the same pinnacles that Fedor/CC/Nog did!!! except Werdum/AO; obviously no one wants that again.

Not sure what you are addressing. This isn't a ufc vs pride circa 2006 debate.

Fedor is the type of athlete that of course will be compared across "era". He was obviously the top guy in 2006.

[SeattleFightFan]

Originally Posted by kflo

Not sure what you are addressing. This isn't a ufc vs pride circa 2006 debate.

Fedor is the type of athlete that of course will be compared across "era". He was obviously the top guy in 2006.

you're right to be not sure; i went a bit off kilter. then i had coffee. you can ignore me. cheers.

[Idonotbelieveit]

Originally Posted by TheComebackKid

Because he was 40 yrs old and only had 1 fight in the previous 3 yrs? Or that he went 3-4 after Fedor?

coleman wasn't in his prime but he still was a good win, he was 13-5 at the time.

also randleman ko'd top 3 hw cro cop before fighting fedor.. yet you still say that win doesn't mean much..

[TankAbbott4Eva]

Originally Posted by Jackonflame

It was the cage.

He didn't adapt to being locked inside a cage.

He always looked so out of place

'

Can that really be it do you think? Is that why Cro Cop/Wand/Nog didn't do as well in the UFC as they did in Pride? (Not trolling, I've never been sure that this is the case though)