KounterPunch, Im extremely disappointed in you. If you have a gripe with anything I've said, you should say it directly to me rather than speaking of me in an absentee perspective. I just happened to look in on this, and due to the Holiday, I dont have time to reply, but you're very much taking insinuations of what my views are in combat sports and applying them out of context. I'd expect more not only from someone with a teacher like you have, and one who values a teacher I had. The next time you're ever in question of what I do or don't feel or say, feel free to send me a PM directing me to the thread or page where the discussion is taking place, and I'll be happy to explain my own position rather than having others who may not have followed my posts for very long make a half-assed an inconsiderate attempt to do it for me.
In the meantime, though, Merry Christmas. And in the future, dont let arguing with a beginner cloud your mind so.
__________________
"You Son of a bitch double-crosser. You are no good, your word is no good. Nothing is good about you. You're gonna get hurt, and by hurt, I mean Dead." - Frankie Carbo
His name is Robert Lawson, his name is Robert Lawson....
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Can u name me the top 10 lefty boxers of all time ?
Where are their hands ?
The only ones who do that , off the top of my head , are Michael Nunn and Pernel Whitaker.
Both had ungodly reflexes AND footwork.
It doesn't matter how good your reflexes and footwork is compared to peak humans. All that matters is that they are better than the guy you are fighting, and by practicing in that way you will improve them.
There are a million guys who look so much like Mike Tyson in pictures that learned to walk and punch and shrug just like him. In any given photograph their stance is exactly the same and to watch them hammer down someone worse than they are, you might even think they are as good as Tyson, but their reflexes and footwork don't hold up against other people.
Hopefully when Nuke takes his first fight it will be against someone else with a 0/0 record and he will demolish the guy with what looks like good reflexes and positioning.
I'm not saying you are wrong about anything else. Just that you need to have good reflexes to practice fighting a certain way. Right now he is trying to get a certain form down, and as time passes his reflexes will get better as long as he pushes himself against better people, but in so doing that he will be beat and will look bad. He has to go through that.
Edit - Some people teach a tight guard to new people because they don't have the reflexes to block punches, but their coaches want them to hit one another hard anyway, so that they get used to hard punches faster and learn to see them coming, improving their reflexes. Nuke is fighting with his hands down and generally with partners that don't hit as hard, hoping to increase his reflexes more gradually while perfecting the form he wants to use later. Ever play a video game where you get points to unlock something when you level - you can make the game harder at the beginning by saving those points to unlock power ups that only become available late game. That's how nuke is playing real life. He doesn't want to blow his skill training on shit he believes he would abandon when later abilities unlock, so he's just saving his skill points up and investing in things that aren't as useful yet. So long as he doesn't let people keep kicking him in the face and dropping his IQ on his way to developing faster reflexes, I think it can work out for him.
Edit 2 - Nuke hasn't had his moment of truth yet. At some point he is going to have to start sparring regularly with people who are trying to hit him harder, who really know what they are doing. At that point, he will have advanced the furthest he can without being pushed by someone trying to beat him. If he can't adapt then, he will have to change. Only he can know when he gets there and what happens when he does, if he does well enough or not. His persistent independent study is something most people don't have. He will know what they are doing but they won't understand him. There is an edge in this.
Last edited by SummerStriker; 12-25-2012 at 06:59 PM.
KounterPunch, Im extremely disappointed in you. If you have a gripe with anything I've said, you should say it directly to me rather than speaking of me in an absentee perspective. I just happened to look in on this, and due to the Holiday, I dont have time to reply, but you're very much taking insinuations of what my views are in combat sports and applying them out of context. I'd expect more not only from someone with a teacher like you have, and one who values a teacher I had. The next time you're ever in question of what I do or don't feel or say, feel free to send me a PM directing me to the thread or page where the discussion is taking place, and I'll be happy to explain my own position rather than having others who may not have followed my posts for very long make a half-assed an inconsiderate attempt to do it for me.
In the meantime, though, Merry Christmas. And in the future, dont let arguing with a beginner cloud your mind so.
C'mon man , I don't have a gripe with you or what u teach.
I actually signed on with you in mind because I enjoy your shit.
You have a nice way with words.
I just didnt agree with the whole learning with your hands down from the beginning approach.
It's not like I called you out in front of a class or anything.
This is a forum . We exchange ideas , opinions , theories.
We might not always agree but it's not like we got it in for each other from now.
We might agree now , tomorrow you think something I said is wrong . It's no big deal and I hope u feel the same .
Ps - you forget I know you follow this thread , anyways PM sent.
Huh, i just stumbled into these two very good books about old school boxing that i'm sure many people will be interested in. One is Boxing Simplified by John J Walsh (published in 1951) and Boxing by Edwin Haislet (published in 1940). Both books are old but very detailed about stance, attacks, defense and training along with plenty of photos and illustrations.
Kounty, Nuke is going to fight his hands down. Nothing in heaven or earth is going to change his mind. If Jesus came back and commanded Nuke to fight with his hands up, he would refuse. He is determind to make his style work, by any means. Even if he gest picked apart with that stance in his career, he is going to stubbornly pursue the course until good things start to happen.
My only question for Nuke is although that may be an ideal stance and style for boxing, why is he convinced that will work for MMA? What aspects of that stance does he feel will transfer over well to MMA?
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"He wants to come all from the darkside on this one, I don't understand it"
Kounty, Nuke is going to fight his hands down. Nothing in heaven or earth is going to change his mind. If Jesus came back and commanded Nuke to fight with his hands up, he would refuse. He is determind to make his style work, by any means. Even if he gest picked apart with that stance in his career, he is going to stubbornly pursue the course until good things start to happen.
My only question for Nuke is although that may be an ideal stance and style for boxing, why is he convinced that will work for MMA? What aspects of that stance does he feel will transfer over well to MMA?
I think Sinister will give you a much better and more specific answer, but here are my general reasons why i think it will transfer well to MMA.
IMHO, first of all in this style it is all about learning and using the most optimal (I don't use correct because it will cause a firestorm over what's correct or not) principals of combat. These principals works in a large degree from kickboxing to boxing or even to wrestling so it is not simply a matters of hit and not getting hit. Like Sinister said, fighting is fighting, no matter the context. In my threads this is showed where i use the style in a number of different situations ranging from MMA to boxing to kickboxing (not include that dreadful KK session ) and come out knowing that it was those principals and techniques that carried me through the day, winning or losing, not athleticism or inhuman reflex.
Secondly, the stance came from bareknuckle boxing. This is when boxing are still a very raw form of combat sport that allowed things like kicking above the belt with sharp shoes, clinch fighting that include holds and body lock throws and of course, the use of the barehands to strike. That alone have more connections to modern MMA than modern boxing that only include striking with the hands in 10oz gloves, and limited clinch fighting. This is not to mention around that time boxing have more connection to wrestling than it is now, like how John L Sullivan's trainer was a wrestler, while Jack Johnson often spar with wrestlers as his style is basically mauling people in the inside with clinch fighting. Also, this type of stance can be found in old school okinawan karate, which is an art that have striking include the use of the hands and the legs.
So overall, the reason i think this stance/style will transfer well to MMA is that it already covers different aspects in MMA that modern boxing/muay thai/kickboxing might not. Including striking with much smaller gloves, defense using footworks and positioning (something Lyoto Machida showed very well in his career), and takedown defense. This is not to mention optimal combat principals include angles, controlling the range....so on and so forth. It is only a matter of me being able to train adequately and ready when i step into the cage.
And of course, below is one of Sinister's student, Arni The Ice Viking applied these principals into MMA in his Round 2 KO of Wayne Murrie. Once in round 2 where Arni passed the kicking range into the punching range, it became open season on the other guy. I hope the video illustrated why i think bareknuckle boxing style/stance is extremely suitable for MMA and such an undiscovered goldmine.
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Last edited by Nuclearlandmine; 12-26-2012 at 09:46 AM.
) and come out knowing that it was those principals and techniques that carried me through the day, winning or losing, not athleticism or inhuman reflex.
