Most Important Aspect for Self Defense Striking

[DoctorTaco]

Originally Posted by Gavster

Not knowing that running is sometimes an option is stupid.

When I was 20, heading to work after sleeping off an allnighter in the city the day before, a Maori guy my height with 30kgs on me begs me for 5 cents and as I go to walk around him, he pushes me into the wall. He grabs my phone outta my pocket and I reacted by pulling his jumper over his head and throwing uppercuts at him. I'd never trained uppercuts at this stage and bruised the crap out of my hands on his hard Maori head. I stepped back to assess the situation and he put his hands up saying: come on then. Only his three mates are running over from across the street and its 1pm outside the plaza on a Monday - the place is deserted, just us 5.

So I run. Fucking smart decision.
Yes when you are incoherent in a bar talking smack chances are you won't see any clues preceding a fight, I had glimpsed the four of them across the road earlier, which saved me getting my ass whooped.
Majority of fights in the pub are between drunks so yes running is no option if you're maggoted.

A brisk walk should keep Maori assailants from catching you

[KarateStylist]

Originally Posted by SummerStriker

1. Sorry, you might have misunderstood the point of my post. My point is that his martial arts training failed him in a classic situation (backed up by a bigger man) despite his considerable skill.

2. This is the same problem I could face, being walked down by a large guy, particularly sense I have experience training with two people in the 400 pound plus range.

3. I'm thinking about what striking skills he would need to beat me that his training neglected, because it is a model for a case where I could be endangered.

^^^ NO.1. Strangely enough, isn't this the same dilemma experience by Shotokan karate MMA stylist, Lyoto Machida....

>>>> His loses against all the top-tier UFC LHW's were the inability to infight....

^^^ NO. 2. My answer would be how does traditional karate teach you to (1) defeat the physically superior opponent...; (2) What is the most efficient way to defeat an opponent...?

^^^ NO. 3. I think the key point, and other striking posters have broached this..., was his ability to "hit & run," his inability to step-in & exchange....

In all fairness to your failed opponent, I think it highly improbable he could "back you up," and remain in the realm of sporting-style striking....

Originally Posted by SummerStriker

Is blitzing, trading blows in close, clinching and in fighting, and straight up brawling more important for SD than being good at moving around the ring, or at least as important? I understand that those things (brawling and infighting) seem base and are less fun for most people to train. I don't think there is a way around it if you want to be good.

^^^ I entirely agree with your premise...

KarateStylist

[Gavster]

Lol Taco.

[Azam]

I think having an extremely good balance & being able to defend very well & counter are most important to self defence imo.

[ghostwipe]

Originally Posted by DoctorTaco

A brisk walk should keep Maori assailants from catching you

Lol!

A true student of the game.

[Edison Carasio]

Originally Posted by SummerStriker

I was sparring a guy the other day who must have done some kind of knock down karate or something. We were sparring in a narrow part of the crowded mat where there wasn't room for side to side movement unless we wanted to go into the weights or heavy bags.

He hit really hard and was way faster than me. He could bounce in, hit or kick me, and back up before I could counter, and he was hitting me pretty fucking hard.

Unfortunately for him, the reason that he was so fast is because I outweighed him by about 80 pounds (260 vs. 180) and he was not able to take ground or drive me back. I never stepped back.

I knew he couldn't clinch or grapple. I would have smothered him if he got to close. So this is how it went. He would step in and hit me, then step back. I would step forward. He would react by stepping back. Hit me or not, each time we engaged he lost ground. I was able to back him into the wall at will and when he was forced to trade hits he lost every time.

It was a pretty realistic set up when you think about it. It is easier to fight someone with infinite room to move around. In that situation though, he didn't have that luxury. He HAD to engage me at some point and he wasn't equipped for it.

While it goes against the normal martial arts practices of controlling the range, cutting angles, picking clashes, and so on and on, none of that was possible and I wonder if that is a major cause of martial artists losing fights with ordinary people.

Is blitzing, trading blows in close, clinching and in fighting, and straight up brawling more important for SD than being good at moving around the ring, or at least as important? I understand that those things (brawling and infighting) seem base and are less fun for most people to train. I don't think there is a way around it if you want to be good.

Movement is as important in street fighting or self defense as it is in sport fighting. The applications and situations for each might be different in certain scenerios but to say what I have bolded in your post above is wrong. Foot work to avoid multiple attackers, avoid obstacles around you with which you might be pinned down to (trash cans, parked cars etc) and uneven turf (concrete to gravel, gravel to grass etc) are all things to take into consideration if the situation has come to a fight.

Learning to fight in a closed, confined space is of utmost necessity in the street fight as many fights begin at close quarters with someone in your face. The likelihood of having to fight confined is very high. Someone follows you into an alley, bathroom at a bar, a parking lot between cars, etc are all realistic situation.

If you find yourself in a corner, against a wall, etc in a street fight there are some principals I would consider depending on the emotional content of the fight. As with all street fighting, the simplest technique is the best.

Working from the notion that this is a drunken brawl where doing maximum harm to the attacker is not ideal, simple working for a clinch of some sort and spinning out of the corner and putting your attacker into it is ideal so you can disengage.

Should that fail or it escalates further, then you should be able to neutralize the situation with some dirty boxing, thai clinch or even some Greco if you prefer. Stiff elbows, hooks, uppercuts and knees should do the trick to take the will to fight out of most attackers and minimize damage to yourself. I would maybe give some attention to controller their wrists as to avoid them pulling out a knife and stabbing you from the clinch.

If your intent or need is to inflict maximum damage, or you are out matched technically or by size you should consider true self defense tactics. Begin kneeing to the groin, sticking thumbs in eyes, stomping the instep or biting. Hair pulling can be used to control very well from your back being in in the corner. If trapped, head butting can help break an opponent off of you and to get him to back up. If outmatched or out muscled, a simple groin or eye strike should cause enough pain or distraction to allow escape or follow up with more conventional striking.

But from a self defense standpoint, being against the wall may be to our advantage. If you are faced with multiple attackers and the aspect of escape is not available, the wall or corner may help keep you from being surrounded and to keep your attackers in front of you where you can see them to cover up and defend more. For anecdotal evidence of this, refer to the story of a street fight in Europe with Chuck Liddell stopping multiple attackers in this fashion and the same story in which Lee Murray allegedly pummeled Tito Ortiz.

[KarateStylist]

^^^ Come across as a darn good self-defense instructor....

KarateStylist

[SummerStriker]

^^ I got ya. Great post. Thank you.

[Noblet10]

Well, in any fight or self defense situation, you should use whatever natural attributes you have. You used you size, and he used his speed and agility. The difference between your sparring and a self defense situation is the multiple variables that come available in a real life fight. The smaller attacker could choose to go for your groin, throat, and other vulnerable areas to prevent you from closing him in. He could also use improvised weapons or other things. Also, I'm sure it was more of an agreement to not go behind the weights or heavy bags. I'm sure in a real fight he could have used them to his advantage.

The fact is it's extremely hard to simulate a real life fight scenario. Even NHB isn't a real life fight scenario, because it's in a ring or cage typically. There is a set environment.

[Edison Carasio]

Originally Posted by KarateStylist

^^^ Come across as a darn good self-defense instructor....

KarateStylist

Thank you KarateStylist. I am not the best fighter and will never be a pro sport fighter, so I have devoted much of my attention to the place where I will be most likely to have to employ all the things I have learned through my sport training experience: defending myself.

I would also add that to piggy back off what I think KS was getting at with his post above, your sparring partner, Summerstriker, is already at a disadvantage in the infighting because his sport and training only account for having copious amounts of space to work with.

Also I forgot to promote the effectiveness of the good, old fashioned push kick/teep to the above on how to escape the wall/corner along with use of the headbutt for infighting.