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Strength & Conditioning Discussion You call that a deadlift? HA! Come in and share your woes, girly man.

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Old 12-12-2012, 12:23 AM   #11
belph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tosa View Post
Well, I meant squats or front squats, but thought it was too wordy. Plus doing either as pause squats, and the occasional use of a manta ray and reverse bands. See, now it'd no longer be a short, sweet sentence with a Beatles song title at the end.



Yeah. So I knew this guy who knew this guy who knew this who knew this guys's cousin who got popped for empty posting. Hence a random sentence to avoid punishment ala Midnighter.

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Old 12-12-2012, 12:29 AM   #12
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Even though a picture is worth a thousand words, and therefore a gif is worth 1000^F where "F" is the number of frames in the gif, making the above picture more than equivalent to using more text than has ever been, and will ever be written, to explain just how mind blowing my programming is?

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Old 12-12-2012, 01:01 AM   #13
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5/3/1 on crack.
Holy freaking DOMS Batman!

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Old 12-12-2012, 01:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tosa View Post
Well, they're pretty short workouts.

How about Squat, press, deadlift or PC, chins, assistance, 8 days a week?
He's got main lift, assistance (I think), something for upper back, rotator cuff and curls, and abs every day, plus light lower back exercises, which I guess you would do on DL and squat day. But I suppose that only the main lift has to be heavy, the assistance might he heavy or it might he higher rep, and the upper back will vary- sometimes you could do weighted chins, sometimes it might be a zillion face pulls. Then the lower back stuff, abs, curls and rotator cuff stuff you can probably whiz through. So 2-3 hard exercises, then 3-4 easier ones. I'd say that is not super-short, but it is definitely doable.

But I still find it pretty intimidating- you'd have to get through 2 whole cycles of 5/3/1 in 15 days (assuming a 30 day month). That might be

1st- Bench 3x3,
2nd- Squat 3x3,
3rd- Overhead press 3x3,
4th- DL 3x3,
5th- REST
6th- Bench 5x5
7th- Squat 5x5
8th- Overhead press 5x5
9th- DL 3x3 (with 5x5 %s)
10th- REST
11th- Bench 5/3/1
12th- Squat 5/3/1
13th- Overhead press 5/3/1
14th- DL 5/3/1
15th- REST

It's a lot of work. I guess the fact that 5/3/1 doesn't have much volume does have to be taken into account, though.

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Old 12-12-2012, 01:40 AM   #15
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Last week, I finished "more squatting" template, where you squat 5 days a week, with various intensities (I did 3 sessions with 95% tr. max). I feel pretty good, and was not really sore after 2nd day on.

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Old 12-12-2012, 02:12 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by JauntyAngle View Post
It's a lot of work. I guess the fact that 5/3/1 doesn't have much volume does have to be taken into account, though.
It's just spread out over a lot of days. As an aside, it could be quite good for someone who can find sometime to train each day, but would be harder pressed to find a lot of time to train on many days. But the frequency of the big lifts isn't greater than you'd find in say, SS, or a Bill Starr routine, although a routine by Bill Starr himself probably wouldn't have deadlifts programmed as such. And the volume quite likely lower, but I haven't taken the time to do the math. Plenty of people here do more total work, even if it isn't quite so spread out.

I don't mean this as a knock against the program. It's just that I don't think it's as much work as some people might think, or that it might appear to be at first glance - sure you're doing a cycle of 5/3/1 in half the time, but you're starting light and not doing the AMRAP sets. Singles are optional, as is whether you work up heavier than your training max. I think it's just a combination of the typical Wendler approach with the goal of practicing the lifts themselves with medium and heavy weights frequently, that seems to be all the rage lately (probably rightfully so, but I digress).

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Old 12-12-2012, 03:54 AM   #17
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I think I'd rather do either a normal-paced 5/3/1 + more conditioning or something like Smolov (depending on your goals), but always interested in what Wendler is playing with. I wonder what the intended outcome is here?

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Old 12-12-2012, 04:37 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Tosa View Post
It's just spread out over a lot of days. As an aside, it could be quite good for someone who can find sometime to train each day, but would be harder pressed to find a lot of time to train on many days. But the frequency of the big lifts isn't greater than you'd find in say, SS, or a Bill Starr routine, although a routine by Bill Starr himself probably wouldn't have deadlifts programmed as such. And the volume quite likely lower, but I haven't taken the time to do the math. Plenty of people here do more total work, even if it isn't quite so spread out.

I don't mean this as a knock against the program. It's just that I don't think it's as much work as some people might think, or that it might appear to be at first glance - sure you're doing a cycle of 5/3/1 in half the time, but you're starting light and not doing the AMRAP sets. Singles are optional, as is whether you work up heavier than your training max. I think it's just a combination of the typical Wendler approach with the goal of practicing the lifts themselves with medium and heavy weights frequently, that seems to be all the rage lately (probably rightfully so, but I digress).
I guess you're right.

It's been a while since I have done 5/3/1, so I forget how comparatively little work it is until you add the AMRAP set. E.g. 3x3 is 3@70%, 3@80%, 3@90%- 9 reps total, average intensity 80%.

Following on from your comment about DLing, I guess the basic point is that it is 3 days each of the big 4. If you were doing a basic lower body/press/pull routine on a 3-day split like mine, maybe you'd be squatting 6 times, benching and pressing 3 times and pulling twice, in a total of 6 sessions. So on this programme you are squatting much less, pressing the same, and pulling a bit more, in twice the number of sessions. That does indeed mean that slightly less work with the big lifts (in terms of frequency, volume and probably average intensity, depending on how much you push the singles) is being spread out over a lot more sessions- those sessions then being filled out mostly with comparatively easy accessory work.

So yes, I guess it would be possible. You'd be going to the gym almost every day but putting in much less effort compared to a lot of more conventional programmes.

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Old 12-12-2012, 05:54 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by belph View Post
Needs more CURLZ variations.
Fixed.

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Old 12-12-2012, 07:00 AM   #20
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Ive been trying to do my own version of this, with less frequency on the pressing, and increased frequency on the squats, but I suck at going to the gym everyday, and also lack time for long workouts more than a couple days a week, so overall it hasnt been working out. I do like the idea of this program, but someone who would qualify- 5+ years lifting and advanced level of strength- would probably already know what program works for them and wouldnt need this one.

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