Catch Wrestling United IV

[KJGould]

Originally Posted by Title Fight Productions

Nice! Really interested in hearing who he grappled with! Hopefully there is some video footage!

Would be very interested in him moving into MMA as well.

Mens NO-GI Beginner Super Heavy Weight
1st Place Harry Smith Gracie Tampa
2nd Place Troy Hill Outlaw Combat
3rd Place Miguel Eloy Padron Boa JJ Crew

Beginner is defined as: MEN’S BEGINNER 6 months to 2 years experience.

I have a feeling Harry will be bumped up a skill class or two if he competes for NAGA again, if this disclaimer is anything to go by:

" SANDBAGGERS BEWARE
NAGA works diligently to prevent "sandbagging", or the practice of fighting down skill levels to ensure one takes home an award. NAGA has been working with RANKED to track all fighters and ranked grappling events to produce true "national standings." A by-product of these standings is our knowledge of who has competed and at which level. Front door personnel will use RANKED data to determine whether or not individuals who have fought in past events belong in a higher skill level (i.e. placed 1st at a prior NAGA event). "

Harry scored 70 points for his win, which will carry over to any future NAGA competition he enters.

He's been training with Billy Robinson for much more than 2 years, he's an assistant coach under him. Maybe less than 2 years training BJJ in a Gi.

[catchwrestling]

Originally Posted by KJGould

Mens NO-GI Beginner Super Heavy Weight
1st Place Harry Smith Gracie Tampa
2nd Place Troy Hill Outlaw Combat
3rd Place Miguel Eloy Padron Boa JJ Crew

Beginner is defined as: MEN’S BEGINNER 6 months to 2 years experience.

I have a feeling Harry will be bumped up a skill class or two if he competes for NAGA again, if this disclaimer is anything to go by:

" SANDBAGGERS BEWARE
NAGA works diligently to prevent "sandbagging", or the practice of fighting down skill levels to ensure one takes home an award. NAGA has been working with RANKED to track all fighters and ranked grappling events to produce true "national standings." A by-product of these standings is our knowledge of who has competed and at which level. Front door personnel will use RANKED data to determine whether or not individuals who have fought in past events belong in a higher skill level (i.e. placed 1st at a prior NAGA event). "

Harry scored 70 points for his win, which will carry over to any future NAGA competition he enters.

He's been training with Billy Robinson for much more than 2 years, he's an assistant coach under him. Maybe less than 2 years training BJJ in a Gi.

Yeah,Really not fair.He would have most likely done well in more advanced divisions,Maybe He just wanted to get a feel for actual competition or maybe The Naga officials placed him there to see what He could do.

[KJGould]

It may be because of the lack of Super Heavyweight competitors, out of the options Novice, Beginner or Expert, they felt Smith was best suited to Beginner as there wasn't an Intermediate class mentioned in the SHW results.

[loksxronin]

I'd say that because lots of people pick up things here and there for Catch there's less of an obsession with lineage. For example my head coach is Mike Martelle (Trained with Hidetaka Aso in Japan), the guy I train with day to day is Jason Boyd. Boyd and I both trained with Jason Chinnick (I did about 6 months of 3-6 hours a week private lessons with him) though I never actually asked where he picked up his knowledge. I do know he's a SAW black belt under Mike Martelle but I don't know if/how long they trained together. Beyond that most of my techniques from outside of there are from Kris Iatskevich who I've been in communication with since around 2006. The rest being little bit here and there.

[Title Fight Productions]

Originally Posted by KJGould

There's nothing wrong with Catch guys training with multiple people since there aren't many left from the old school, and they're spread far apart.

Lineages are being formed that are more similar to what we know in BJJ, with Billy Robinson lineage, Billy Wicks lineage, Tommey Heyes lineage, and Roy Wood lineage being the most prominent (Dick Cardinal and Jack Mountford are honorable mentions but get virtually nil publicity.)

Then you have Fujiwara who seems more interested in the Pro Wrestling element than the sporting Catch wrestling element, at least as far as wrestling promotion is concerned.

Guys like Paulson, Barnett, Iatskevich and Boyd Ritchie etc are what I would consider to be second generation of the modern catch era, if we take this era to be around 25 years old.

It's odd to me you put guys like Boyd and Iatskevich on this short list but leave out Hume and the Shamrocks when these guys have the lineage, have had the schools and the prominent students at least in MMA. They have passed on the skills to dominant fighters.

But you and I have discussed our difference of opinion on this issue before.

[Title Fight Productions]

Originally Posted by KJGould

Mens NO-GI Beginner Super Heavy Weight
1st Place Harry Smith Gracie Tampa
2nd Place Troy Hill Outlaw Combat
3rd Place Miguel Eloy Padron Boa JJ Crew

Beginner is defined as: MEN’S BEGINNER 6 months to 2 years experience.

I have a feeling Harry will be bumped up a skill class or two if he competes for NAGA again, if this disclaimer is anything to go by:

" SANDBAGGERS BEWARE
NAGA works diligently to prevent "sandbagging", or the practice of fighting down skill levels to ensure one takes home an award. NAGA has been working with RANKED to track all fighters and ranked grappling events to produce true "national standings." A by-product of these standings is our knowledge of who has competed and at which level. Front door personnel will use RANKED data to determine whether or not individuals who have fought in past events belong in a higher skill level (i.e. placed 1st at a prior NAGA event). "

Harry scored 70 points for his win, which will carry over to any future NAGA competition he enters.

He's been training with Billy Robinson for much more than 2 years, he's an assistant coach under him. Maybe less than 2 years training BJJ in a Gi.

I would guess he bumps himself up to be honest. Nothing wrong with entering beginner in your first ever tourney. Get a feel for how it goes and what it's all about. I doubt he is a sandbagger. Really hope some video comes out!!!

[Title Fight Productions]

Originally Posted by loksxronin

I'd say that because lots of people pick up things here and there for Catch there's less of an obsession with lineage. For example my head coach is Mike Martelle (Trained with Hidetaka Aso in Japan), the guy I train with day to day is Jason Boyd. Boyd and I both trained with Jason Chinnick (I did about 6 months of 3-6 hours a week private lessons with him) though I never actually asked where he picked up his knowledge. I do know he's a SAW black belt under Mike Martelle but I don't know if/how long they trained together. Beyond that most of my techniques from outside of there are from Kris Iatskevich who I've been in communication with since around 2006. The rest being little bit here and there.

Hey man, i see you're up in BC. You ever think about coming down to Seattle and competing at GSUBX?

[KJGould]

Originally Posted by Title Fight Productions

It's odd to me you put guys like Boyd and Iatskevich on this short list but leave out Hume and the Shamrocks when these guys have the lineage, have had the schools and the prominent students at least in MMA. They have passed on the skills to dominant fighters.

But you and I have discussed our difference of opinion on this issue before.

I thought you'd say that. Iatskevich and Boyd are '2nd generation' because they learned from the late Edouard Carpentier (a contemporary and friend of Karl Gotch), and now have Tommy Heyes as their mentor.

Hume and the Shamrocks have Funaki and Suzuki, who had Fujiwara, who had Gotch.

Now while Barnett learned from Hume and Paulson, and even Suzuki, he has learned in more recent years from Billy Robinson when he can, and a small amount from Robinson and Gotch in Japan. Paulson similarly had learned from Billy Robinson directly and from Gene LeBell, even though his lineage would be Paulson < Nakamura < Sayama < Gotch.

These guys also continue to coach what feels like an authentic representation of Catch, where as Hume and Shamrock became very hybridised and a focus on MMA specific grappling only. That's not a bad thing, but they haven't shown any inclination in bringing Catch back a a sporting competition, something unique and not just generic submission grappling.

[catchwrestling]

KJ,Would you say that Farmer Burns is actually first generation CACC,Having put it all together from Lancaster catch,GR,C&E and others as well as developing new tecniques and strategies himself?Then the next generations improving and assimilating tecniques from JJ,Indian and other European styles.I would actually say
Lou Thesz,Billy Robinson and Karl Gotch would be Third generation and Gene Lebell could be Third or Fourth due to overlapping of generations.That would put Josh barnetts students at fifth or sixth generations,Lots of overlapping of lineage now as several third generation are back into teaching now ,which is great!!

Just my some what historical analysis.

[catchwrestling]

I would even say that Folkstyle and freestyle has advanced since the Farmer's days,though the competition rules of freestyle aggravate me ,especially the the ball draw.LOL

I really liked the rules and set up of the short lived Real Pro Wrestling.I wish something like that could catch on!!