Serious Movie Discussion XXXII

[Shot]

Originally Posted by PolishHeadlock

I'm watching Lucky Number Slevin on TV right now and I feel like this movie was criminally underrated.

Bruce Willis, Morgan Freeman, Sir Ben Kingsley and Josh Hartnett are all great in it.

Solid action and a very interesting story.

It's a cool movie. Definitely very entertaining, and Willis is the man. The movie has a twisted sense of humor to it too which I love.

Originally Posted by Bullitt68;76616645

Cool. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts. FYI, I'm almost done with the fourth season of [B

Dexter[/B] and I'm enjoying it. Hopefully that'll win me back some of the TV points I lost on The Wire

Dexter was great during the first four seasons, it definitely took a down turn on season 5 and beyond though. Lithgow owns in four.

As far as TV points goes, you redeemed much after you name dropped Bear McCreary. Full redemption lies in Breaking Bad and the admittance that Bryan Cranston is the man.

I can't express my love for Cranston in Breaking Bad enough.

Originally Posted by Bullitt68

Seeing how you love both Scorsese and DDL, what do you think about Gangs of New York? I've had a bit of a tumultuous relationship with that film over the years, but now, I think it's a modern masterpiece, easily one of the best films in recent memory.

I first watched Gangs of New York about a year or so ago. It was solely responsible for me going on a DDL binge. Before that all I ever seen him in was Last of the Mohicans. Loved it although I think DiCaprio and Diaz are weak at times. The rest of the supporting cast is great. I love the sets and whole atmosphere of NY too

[Bullitt68]

Originally Posted by shotintheface2

Dexter was great during the first four seasons, it definitely took a down turn on season 5 and beyond though. Lithgow owns in four.

My cousin is the one who recommended it to me, and he kept warning me about Season 2 sucking. Now that I'm finally getting into the show, as of now, Season 2 is my favorite

And yeah, Lithgow is killing it (pun intended ) so far.

Originally Posted by shotintheface2

Full redemption lies in Breaking Bad and the admittance that Bryan Cranston is the man.

That's next on my list.

Originally Posted by shotintheface2

I first watched Gangs of New York about a year or so ago. It was solely responsible for me going on a DDL binge. Before that all I ever seen him in was Last of the Mohicans. Loved it although I think DiCaprio and Diaz are weak at times. The rest of the supporting cast is great. I love the sets and whole atmosphere of NY too

My expectations were too high the first time around, plus I seriously underrated DDL. The more times I watched it, though, the more I came to love what Scorsese did and the more I came to appreciate how much DDL invested in that character.

[Flem]

Originally Posted by Bullitt68

He brilliantly combines mundane events with crazy stylization

well thats a matter of opinion. Mean Streets is his other one that totally let me down.

to me they're his decent efforts that came out long before he honed his skills and became a refined film maker. His prime is Goodfellas and Casino, obviously.

[Shot]

Originally Posted by Bullitt68

My cousin is the one who recommended it to me, and he kept warning me about Season 2 sucking. Now that I'm finally getting into the show, as of now, Season 2 is my favorite
.

Season 2 sucking???????? Whaaattttttttttttttttttt

Season 2 is my favorite as well. Out of the first four, season three was the weakest. Prado just wasn't nearly as intriguing as Doakes or the ice truck killer.

And plus Dexter saying, "I own you." and headbutting Doakes was the best scene in the whole show. I want to cheer just thinking about it.

My expectations were too high the first time around, plus I seriously underrated DDL. The more times I watched it, though, the more I came to love what Scorsese did and the more I came to appreciate how much DDL invested in that character.

Everything DDL did in that movie with the character just bumped it up a notch for me. Bill the Butcher is probably my favorite villain in recent history along with Anton Chigurh and Hans Landa. When he taps his eye with the knife is pure badassery. I would say that's my favorite scene of the movie but many others pop up, the opening scene, Bill killing McGinn, ect

Btw just watched Fallacy and Rage. I'll post a little bit about them both.

Fallacy was very enjoyable. I like that the narrative was different comparing to other episodes of the show, it didn't end with Stabler and Benson finding out the truth and what not, you found that out immediately. It was a nice little shock when you first learn she's a man... and that her boyfriend didn't know... and then he commits suicide. I enjoyed that whole setup very much.

The episodes high points were pointing out the moral shortcomings of the legal system in that particular case. Benson was helpless to help Cheryl fully, and in the end Cheryl ended up being hurt by it. It raised a legitimate question and I like that the writers decided change it up, they didn't just stick to the "shock the viewer" routine that the show routinely gets stuck in. The writers gave the episode more depth due to the nature of the case and its repercussions.

The whole "helplessness" and how "sticking to the status quo to the detriment of the individual" kind of reminded me of The Wire

Like The Wire, the show raised a fault in an institution and that fault was used to generate an emotional reaction from the viewer. It worked very well. By the end the viewer is as similarly conflicted as the prosecutor in the case was.

I'd give that episode a 8.5/10

As far as Rage goes, I didn't like it nearly as much as Fallacy but it was still solid. It's strongest points were the interrogation scenes. Once they let the guy go after 24 hours the episode seemed run of the mill.

Still, Meloni was really good in it and so was the guy he was chasing.

I'd give that one a 7/10

[ufcfan4]

Agree with you guys that Gangs of New York is great. DiCaprio's accent goes in and out and Diaz is sort of miscast but otherwise the film completely works in my view. It's almost as though the film is underrated. While I haven't come across a lot of haters, I've seen a bunch of relatively lukewarm reactions to it. For me, the way Scorsese pulls off NYC during that time period, the amazing performance from DDL, and the stellar supporting cast- Gleeson, Graham, Neeson, Reilly, Billy Elliott's father (hes great in this), Henry Thomas, etc. make this a must see.

I guess some people think the story itself is a bit trite but i don't see it. Basic revenge/coming to relate to the target of the vengeance plot but executed impressively.

[Sigh GunRanger]

Gangs is Scorsese's best as far as I am concerned. The funniest thing in the world is how DDL accepts the final challenge. It kills me every time.

Originally Posted by Bullitt68

Added to which, I couldn't relate to the characters AT ALL. They're too stupid and their plain is too stupid and I never even feel like it's worth Pacino's trouble. And all the supporting actors sucked. And the ending sucked. For me, the film has very little going for it. Pacino and Cazale, that's it, and Cazale isn't even in very much from what I remember.

I think that's what made it great. That they were so stupid, and didnt think ahead. It really is set up from Pacino fumbling to get the gun out of the box. I think the humor in the film, really helps sell all that stuff before it gets "heavy" in the drama part. I kind of agree of the ending. It felt anti-climatic.

[A Bird]

I fully agree that Gangs of New York rates as a modern masterpiece. From the very start it captures the period perfectly and provides the weighted conflict necessary to sustain of movie of that length.

DDL certainly deserves all the credit he receives for his performance as Bill the Butcher as he brings a nuance to a character that was at risk of coming across as very one dimensional. When initially viewing the movie Bill came across to me as a rage driven badass but reviewing a couple of times it became apparent how well DDL does at layering that rage over the paranoia and desperation that accompany being the most feared man in such a cutthroat world. In particular the scenes where he is raging against the draft and his fight with Monk reveal the desperation lurking beneath his bravado.

I also felt DiCaprio had a strong performance which is slightly diminished only due to the fact that he is playing opposite DDL. I like Leo's work generally but I feel his biggest flaw as an actor is that he brings an intensity and energy to every role that don't allow for any quiet moments when he is on screen. Generally he is cast in roles that play to that strength and I think this is one of the best of those roles. Every moment after he comes out of the orphanage is driven by the need to avenge his father and the fact that he can never set that aside in any situation works well for Vallon.

The setting is also terrific as it really captures the whole huddled masses feeling of the city of New York particularly during periods of major immigration.

Overall it is a terrific film from both a wide and narrow point of view. Not to mention it touches on a theme that later became central to The Wire in that although the conflict between Vallon and the Butcher, and the gangs more generally, was all consuming to those principally involved it meant almost nothing to those outside the scope of that conflict.

[Shot]

The Butcher vs The Oil Man!

[Bonged Kiwi]

Originally Posted by Bullitt68

Seeing how you love both Scorsese and DDL, what do you think about Gangs of New York? I've had a bit of a tumultuous relationship with that film over the years, but now, I think it's a modern masterpiece, easily one of the best films in recent memory.

Yeah, I've never been that impressed with it. I've always thought it was good, but I don't think it stands up with his best. For me, it's the beginning of Scorsese coming back to form.

Similarly, I think it was the real beginning of an upswing in DiCaprio's career too. Kind of fitting in that it was their first collaboration together. IMO, both DiCaprio and Scorsese's work in Gangs is good, but nowhere near the excellence they would show in The Aviator, The Departed and Shutter Island in the following years.

However, DDL is fucking incredible in Gangs. But that's par for the course for DDL. I think he's one of the most consistent actors in history. He just amazing in everything. He brings such creativity, originality, focus and intensity to everything he does.

I think the biggest problem with Gangs is that it was a massive passion project for Scorsese and a film he'd been thinking about for 20 years, which resulted in it being somewhat over cooked. It happens sometimes, when a director finally gets the chance to make the film he's always wanted. He runs the risk of over thinking it and getting lost and I think that's what happened with Gangs. I just think the film's a little muddy and not as clear and focused as Scorsese's other films.

To be honest though, it's been a few years since I watched it, so it may be worth another visit.

Originally Posted by shotintheface2

The Butcher vs The Oil Man!

Haha, that was great.

[Flem]

i was lukewarm on Gangs of New York when i saw it, but i feel like i would love it if i watched it now.

Hugo is the best movie he's made since Casino IMO. The Departed lost a lot of points with me over the years and Shutter Island was a train wreck.