Why doesn't Buakaw fight in the Lumpinee?

[Snubnoze707]

Buakaw was ranked #1 in Lumpinee Stadium at 135lbs behind the champ Namsaknoi who he couldn't fight against for the title because they were teammates. Stop acting like he was some nobody scrub.

[ZGSON]

Originally Posted by anorak

They box like they do for a reason, it doesn't generally win fights under ftr like it would under kickboxing, so kick boxers having supposedly better boxing won't help them to win under ft ruleset, hence the assumption that they won't do as good under full Thai rules. If they dont manage to score a knockdown or k.o they will generally get out kicked and out clinched and out kneed

Can you post some examples of it not working under FTR? Or are you just assuming? I'm not saying that a good Dutch kickboxer with good boxing (for KB/MT standards) would definitely win, Im just saying they have a skill that most pure Thai fighters don't possess, which levels the playing field a bit. You folks seem to be saying simply because Thais have a strong clinch game that they will win automatically. I'm a huge Buakaw fanboy, but I can post several examples of him getting pieced up by someone with better hands (admittedly under K1 rules), but still, his lack of boxing gets him in trouble sometimes, luckily he has a good chin.

[Yodsanan]

Originally Posted by ZGSON

Can you post some examples of it not working under FTR? Or are you just assuming? I'm not saying that a good Dutch kickboxer with good boxing (for KB/MT standards) would definitely win, Im just saying they have a skill that most pure Thai fighters don't possess, which levels the playing field a bit. You folks seem to be saying simply because Thais have a strong clinch game that they will win automatically. I'm a huge Buakaw fanboy, but I can post several examples of him getting pieced up by someone with better hands (admittedly under K1 rules), but still, his lack of boxing gets him in trouble sometimes, luckily he has a good chin.

Its the scoring system. deal with it. its not like the Thai dont have physicall ability to be good boxers or something like this. dont you read the last posts of this thread? many thais are really good boxers like Panomrunglek Kiatmoo9 ( 36-1 in western boxing ) who boxes rarely in Muay Thai fights because it counts not much and not working that good in FTR. If Boxing or the Dutch Style would work so good in FTR even the Thai would train it. Some guys like Pornsaneh are able to succeed some time with this style, but these are exceptions.

oh and in which Buakaw got pieced by someone with better hands? he beat heavy hitters and Dutch combo spamers like Zambidis,Masato,Souwer,Kraus,Askerov and others and this under K1 rules.

[ZGSON]

Originally Posted by Yodsanan

Its the scoring system. deal with it.

Deal with it? Are you mad or upset? I'm not. I'm asking questions. What about the scoring system would make them automatically lose? They are both going to be kicking and punchin eachother, if the non Thai can outbox him while avoiding the clinch he will score more points. Deal with it. See how fun that is?

its not like the Thai dont have physicall ability to be good boxers or something like this. dont you read the last posts of this thread?

And it's not like non Thais don't have the physical ability to be good clinchers. Do you not see how hypocritcal you're being with your argument? Its quite ridiculous.

If Boxing or the Dutch Style would work so good in FTR even the Thai would train it.

No they wouldn't. Because they can, and they don't. They could keep training a strong clinch game while increasing their boxing skills so that they had a huge advantage over other pure Thai fighters. Why aren't they doing that? Why leave a huge gap in your skill set? Its because of the mentality of most pure Thai fighters, you know it and I know it.

oh and in which Buakaw got pieced by someone with better hands? he beat heavy hitters and Dutch combo spamers like Zambidis,Masato,Souwer,Kraus,Askerov and others and this under K1 rules.

Pieced up doesn't mean "beat". Never said they necessarily won, I said they put him in trouble and his chin saved him several times. Buakaw is an amazing fighter with a lot of heart and he found a way to win. But yes, several of the fighters you mentioned have pieced him up. U mad?

[Snubnoze707]

Thais are better boxers than the Dutch, that's not even debatable just compare the amount world titles in the major Boxing sanctioning bodies...

[ZGSON]

Originally Posted by Snubnoze707

Thais are better boxers than the Dutch, that's not even debatable just compare the amount world titles in the major Boxing sanctioning bodies...

We're not talking about the sport of boxing. We are talking about the skill of boxing in kickboxing and Muay Thai.

[Yodsanan]

i see where this is going, but im still trying to answer

Originally Posted by ZGSON

Deal with it? Are you mad or upset? I'm not. I'm asking questions. What about the scoring system would make them automatically lose? They are both going to be kicking and punchin eachother, if the non Thai can outbox him while avoiding the clinch he will score more points. Deal with it. See how fun that is?

im not mad or upset, i just said it before like many others and you asking the same questions again and again.

And it's not like non Thais don't have the physical ability to be good clinchers. Do you not see how hypocritcal you're being with your argument? Its quite ridiculous.

fact is many thais who are really good boxers dont box often in Muay Thai because of the scoring system. So they have the potential and skills to be good boxers if they want to.

Farangs on the other side mostly get ragdolled when it comes to clinching.

No they wouldn't. Because they can, and they don't. They could keep training a strong clinch game while increasing their boxing skills so that they had a huge advantage over other pure Thai fighters. Why aren't they doing that? Why leave a huge gap in your skill set? Its because of the mentality of most pure Thai fighters, you know it and I know it.

lolwut.

they dont train the dutch style because its not scoring in Muay Thai.
I mentioned Panomrunglek in my last post.After your theory he could outbox many others thais , but not doing it because of his mentality? LOL
Hes not doing it because it dont work that good in FTR.
Guys like him or Jomthong Chuwattana would kill every "Dutch Kickboxer" in a boxing fight or in a Muay Thai fight.
Its just pure ignorance and hating to say Boxing+lowkicks is the more complete style then Clinching+Kicks+Elbows+Knees.

Pieced up doesn't mean "beat". Never said they necessarily won, I said they put him in trouble and his chin saved him several times. Buakaw is an amazing fighter with a lot of heart and he found a way to win. But yes, several of the fighters you mentioned have pieced him up. U mad?

Wow some good boxers gave him a good fight. awesome argument. he has a good chin but it really saved him only in the Dida fight.

Originally Posted by Snubnoze707

Thais are better boxers than the Dutch, that's not even debatable just compare the amount world titles in the major Boxing sanctioning bodies...

thanks this is what im talking about.

[ZGSON]

Originally Posted by Yodsanan

Farangs on the other side mostly get ragdolled when it comes to clinching.

Are you a biased Thai? Sounds like you are, because you are fairly upset and are using very subjective arguments. You are now arguing that Thais are genertically superior to clinching than Farangs, and that if Farangs trained the clinch as much they still wouldn't be. And on top of that, Thais just "choose" not to be good at boxing, but if they wanted to they would excel. How is it having your cake and eating it too? Tasty?

lolwut.

they dont train the dutch style because its not scoring in Muay Thai.
I mentioned Panomrunglek in my last post.After your theory he could outbox many others thais , but not doing it because of his mentality? LOL
Hes not doing it because it dont work that good in FTR.

I didn't say they don't train the "Dutch style", I said they don't train boxing as much as they could/should. You can training boxing and still not necessarily have a "Dutch style", it just so happens that the Dutch style relies much more on boxing, but they don't own boxing. Maybe there is a language barrier here because these are very simple points.

Its just pure ignorance and hating to say Boxing+lowkicks is the more complete style then Clinching+Kicks+Elbows+Knees.

Its just pure ignorance and hating to say Clinching+Kicks+Elbows+Knees is the more complete style then Boxing+lowkicks. Again....SEE HOW FUN THAT IS? And once again, I never said it was better, I said boxing levels the playing field for someone who lacks clinching. I also said that a Thai fighter who uses Clinching+Kicks+Elbows+Knees AND boxing would be a more complete fighter.

Wow some good boxers gave him a good fight. awesome argument. he has a good chin but it really saved him only in the Dida fight.

Wow one Thai fighter you mentioned had good boxing, awesome argument. Hilarious.

thanks this is what im talking about.

If you seriously agreed with his point then you are severely biased and can't understand simple logic.

[Snubnoze707]

Originally Posted by ZGSON

We're not talking about the sport of boxing. We are talking about the skill of boxing in kickboxing and Muay Thai.

Many Thai Boxing champs were former Nakmuay. They don't utilize their boxing as much in Muay Thai because of the judging criteria. You don't win a fight in Muay Thai by out boxing your opponent you win it by out Muay Thai'ing your opponent. Maybe you should look into the scoring criteria.

[Yodsanan]

Oh boy, lets give it another try.

Originally Posted by ZGSON

Are you a biased Thai? Sounds like you are, because you are fairly upset and are using very subjective arguments. You are now arguing that Thais are genertically superior to clinching than Farangs, and that if Farangs trained the clinch as much they still wouldn't be. And on top of that, Thais just "choose" not to be good at boxing, but if they wanted to they would excel. How is it having your cake and eating it too? Tasty?

im half thai. dont have something to do with the way i argue.
do you actually follow Muay thai? Most Thais are more superior then most farangs in Clinching , not because they are Thai but because they train the Clinch way more. easy as that.

I never saw any European school having 40 minutes of clinching like they do in Thailand.

I didn't say they don't train the "Dutch style", I said they don't train boxing as much as they could/should. You can training boxing and still not necessarily have a "Dutch style", it just so happens that the Dutch style relies much more on boxing, but they don't own boxing. Maybe there is a language barrier here because these are very simple points.

they have a fullpacked training schedule of 4-6 Hours a day + running each day like 10Km. Sure its easy to " just train more boxing to be better then the usual thai" for a keyboard warrior.

Its just pure ignorance and hating to say Clinching+Kicks+Elbows+Knees is the more complete style then Boxing+lowkicks. Again....SEE HOW FUN THAT IS? And once again, I never said it was better, I said boxing levels the playing field for someone who lacks clinching. I also said that a Thai fighter who uses Clinching+Kicks+Elbows+Knees AND boxing would be a more complete fighter.

again read above.

Wow one Thai fighter you mentioned had good boxing, awesome argument. Hilarious.

there are plenty thais who have really good boxing. i just mentioned Panomrunglek because he is a excellent boxer who rarely box in Muay Thai fights. Jomthong Chuwattana current Rajadamnern super featherweight champion even won the OPBF boxing title this year. Saenchai , Sam A and many others also have several pro Boxing fights.

If you seriously agreed with his point then you are severely biased and can't understand simple logic.

thais take they boxing principles from muay thai and not the other way around, so i think this is a valid argument.

Originally Posted by Snubnoze707

Many Thai Boxing champs were former Nakmuay. They don't utilize their boxing as much in Muay Thai because of the judging criteria. You don't win a fight in Muay Thai by out boxing your opponent you win it by out Muay Thai'ing your opponent. Maybe you should look into the scoring criteria.

dont try it. i said it already 10 times but he seem not to understand.