Vegan/Vegitarianism debunked by Paleo/Evolutionary Biology?

[lildog]

Of course i don't think there has been a definitive diet for optimal health and longevity developed and fully supported by great and various per reviewed studies, but I'm slowly but surely lending myself to eating Paleo and a little more tailored to me and what my biomarkers and test results indicate. Anyway, I'm fascinated if there are any debates either on youtube/video (*preferred) or articles that cover which is the better diet Vegan or Paleo or even just standard Vegetarian vs. Paleo?

Below is a link to an entire video series on Youtube where someone who goes by the name "Plant Positive" under the title Primitive Nutrition tries to debunk much of what guys like Loren Cordain and Robb Wolf advocate i.e. Paleo diet that is mostly low carb etc. through his evidence of paleolithic and hunter gatherer societies either validating his view of a high carb diet of fruits and veggies is good or that the people who did eat lots of animal fat and protein didn't do to well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAKk5...feature=relmfu

Thoughts and other information greatly appreciated.

[Chernabog]

I was going to say some fancy anthropology stuff but really what it all boils down to is just eat relatively healthy and exercise.

[EddieLovesYou]

1st: looking at what humans have eaten historically can be insightful, but remember that these people did not live to be 80-100 years old. Longevity is relatively new thing we factor into our diets.

2nd and most important: it is possible to thrive on a variety of diets, including a vegan diet. I wouldn't ever advocate becoming vegan for "health reasons" alone but if one wants to for environmental or ethical reasons then it is certainly possible (and not difficult) to do it without negative effects.

[lildog]

Originally Posted by EddieLovesYou

1st: looking at what humans have eaten historically can be insightful, but remember that these people did not live to be 80-100 years old. Longevity is relatively new thing we factor into our diets.

2nd and most important: it is possible to thrive on a variety of diets, including a vegan diet. I wouldn't ever advocate becoming vegan for "health reasons" alone but if one wants to for environmental or ethical reasons then it is certainly possible (and not difficult) to do it without negative effects.

That is why i specified "debunked Veganism" for optimal health. I know if people want to exclude certain things from their diet do to moral or religious reasons then good for them, but I'm really asking has Veganism been disprove from an optimal health perspective such as B12 and Iron deficiencies plus the benefits of animal fat for the brain to name a few things Vegan's would be lacking in nutritionally and long term ...is it true that grains are bad for most people and hard to digest for the roughly 3/4ths of people in the world w/ gluten intolerance/sensitivity etc..which also leads to cross reactor issues w/ dairy (*vegan and a lot of vegetarians wouldn't have that problem just mentioning it though) as well as more common cross reactors w/ chocolate and potatoes/nightshades etc.

[SummerStriker]

Aren't the two most long lived people the Inuit, who eat a very high fat / meat diet and the Okinawans who got like 70% of their calories from yams and most of the rest from beans and rice?

I bet their isolation from other nasty humans, life style and healthy diet free of chemicals was more important than specifically what they ate (before either culture got McDonalds).

[Loomy]

#1 goal of veg diet: dont kill animals
#1 goal of paleo diet: prove paleo diet works

only modern medicine diets have health as #1 priority. that doesn't mean 100% correctness. but at least they start from the right place. and being mainstream means there is less chance of being crazy.

there is some food political lobby built in here, but not enough to break it. recommending grains, for example, is not wrong. grains are cheap and so are most people. that's okay.

harvard school of public health: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritio...hould-you-eat/

[Nemesis48]

When I used to eat like Americans preceding keto I honestly thought vegan/vege was one of the most unhealthy diets you could pursue. I still think the same of vegan, but I could imagine a pretty healthy vege diet if you eat a lot of avocado, artichoke, berries, asparagus, greek yogurt, seeds, nuts and cheese. I mean pumpkin seeds are a pretty damn good standin for meat (relatively high protein, high fat, zinc, iron) - and the same can be said of some other seeds and nuts.

[brutal respect]

Originally Posted by Loomy

#1 goal of veg diet: dont kill animals
#1 goal of paleo diet: prove paleo diet works

I agree with this. People are constantly trying to prove that the paleo diet is effective or the best or whatever.. Most people eating a vegetarian diet aren't trying to prove anything other than to be healthy and live by their principles.

I think if you follow either diet with your sole goal to be the healthiest you can be, you'll be successful.

[ocean size]

Originally Posted by lildog

That is why i specified "debunked Veganism" for optimal health. I know if people want to exclude certain things from their diet do to moral or religious reasons then good for them, but I'm really asking has Veganism been disprove from an optimal health perspective such as B12 and Iron deficiencies plus the benefits of animal fat for the brain to name a few things Vegan's would be lacking in nutritionally and long term ...is it true that grains are bad for most people and hard to digest for the roughly 3/4ths of people in the world w/ gluten intolerance/sensitivity etc..which also leads to cross reactor issues w/ dairy (*vegan and a lot of vegetarians wouldn't have that problem just mentioning it though) as well as more common cross reactors w/ chocolate and potatoes/nightshades etc.

I don't think you are going to find anything 'debunking' veganism from this perspective for reasons mentioned above and a few others. 1. Early human subsisted on a variety of diets from nearly all animal to nearly all vegan. 2. Needing supplimentation for optimal health doesn't debunk a diet, I think anyone's diet could be more optimal with fine-tuning or some supplementation. 3. Grains and the advent of agriculture may have lead to some health issues, especially relying on a few monocrops, but there is a good reason agrarian societies took over the world- they were able to produce enough food to allow for specialization and standing armies.

The optimal diet for long term health (in the literature) appears to be one with a lot of plant based calories and some lean protein, with vegans and pescatarians around the top. It would be hard to debunk a diet when many people are doing great on it.

One last thing - if it works for you, great, but I'd be wary of buying into a new diet based soley on what people think we used to eat, when we are still trying to figure out exactly what people used to eat.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2031999.html

[Lance Freimuth]

Originally Posted by Loomy

#1 goal of veg diet: dont kill animals
#1 goal of paleo diet: prove paleo diet works

Then vegetarianism has a LONG way to go. I read a study that indicated that cereal grain monoculture kills about 25X more animals per gram of consumable protein than grass fed beef.

Unless we're not counting snakes, mice, birds, and bugs as animals, vegetarianism is the MOST prolific offender of animal deaths among all diets. At least in other diets the animals that die actual get eaten. For veggies, they sit in a field and rot.

Vegetarianism trades the seen for the unseen. Or more specifically, they remain willfully ignorant about the animals that die to facilitate their diet, while meat eaters are at least cognizant of the fact. And not coincidentally, they're willing that many MORE animals die so that they don't have to see it, rather than FEWER animals dying that they have to witness.