Adding volume to 5-3-1

moyy · 11-08-2012, 05:27 PM

Hey guys, so I've been running 5-3-1 for 12 cycles now, and am very happy with my results. However, lately I've been feeling like a little bit of extra volume at high or relatively high intensities would be beneficial to practice form but also just to see how my body reacts to it in general so that I can start to try and "learn" my body and slowly make adjustments towards optimizing my training plan. Now, I've done some research and also put some thought into this and I've considered 3 ways of adding this extra volume, and they are as follows:

1. The basic one of repeating the 2 sets before the main one. So after doing 65% x 5, 75% x 5 and 85% x 5+, I'd do 75% x 5 and 65% x 5. This is easy to implement but I'm not sure if it'll be beneficial as the work isn't done at a very high relative intensity.

2. To go from the "fresher" %'s (for those who are unaware or simply don't remember: week1: 65% x 5, 75% x 5, 85% x 5+, week2: 70% x 3, 80% x 3, 90% x 3+, week3: 75% x 5, 85% x 3, 95% x 1+) to the "heavier" %'s (week1: 75% x 5, 80% x 5, 85% x 5+, week2: 80% x 3, 85% x 3, 90% x 3+, week3: 85% x 5, 90% x 3, 95% x 1+). This has the advantage of getting me more work at higher intensity, but perhaps will tire me out too much for the main set?

3. Instead of doing an AMAP last set, repeat the last set each week for 3 sets of the prescribed reps, so week 1 I'd do 3 sets of 85% x 5, week 2 3 sets of 90% x 3, and week 3 3 sets of 95% x 1. This seems to be a adjustment that some people have made successfully, but not sure if it's deviating too far from the program ideals.

Basically, I'd like your thoughts and experiences on which one you would choose or maybe even join 2 of them or something else entirely. It is also worth noting that I am training MMA 5x a week and LISS 2x and doing some power-work (throws and jumps) before each lifting session, but I'd really rather people not focus on telling me I'm doing too much or whatever, as I've accimilated to this volume slowly, I eat and sleep perfectly everyday, and I have no problems at all recovering from it, and instead focus on answering my question above.

Thanks a lot in advance.

hatchoo · 11-08-2012, 06:03 PM

I've done #1 and a version of your #3:

#1 - do it as you mentioned but also go AMRAP on the last set (ie. 65x5, 75x5, 85x5+, 75x5, 65x5+)

#3 -
Week 1 - 333 week. Only do the prescribed reps but repeat the last set of 3 for 3 more sets.
Week 2 - 555 week. Just do the prescribed reps. It's like a deload.
Week 3 - 531 week. Go AMRAP on the last set.

The option 3 for me is harder. That's the one that i switched to after running 531 for about 4-5 cycles. I had to switch because there was a point where i was just hitting the prescribed reps but i felt like i could do more sets (especially on the 333 week). It worked out for me so hopefully it works for you.

eastNYgoon138 · 11-08-2012, 06:37 PM

I finish the 3 work sets, the last being an AMRAP, doing up to 3 heavier singles, then repeating the 3 works sets backwards and making the last set, which was the first set, another AMRAP.

For example...

65% x 5
75% x 5
85% x 5 +
90% x 1
90% x 1
90% x 1
85% x 5
75% x 5
65% x 5 +

Your #3 is a good option too.

TeddyRoosevelt · 11-08-2012, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moyy

but not sure if it's deviating too far from the program ideals.

I think you already know this, but sometimes it helps to hear again anyhow. Just because the program was written one way does not make that way ideal for you; just because it worked for you as written does not make it ideal for you; just because it worked at one time does not mean it will work as well now.

You already know that you can progress on 5/3/1. If you are attuned to your body, and feel that you would progress better with extra volume, give it a try. If it doesn't work, you can always go back to 5/3/1.

You're young, and you aren't fighting yet. You still have some time to experiment.

MilkManUK · 11-09-2012, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastNYgoon138

I finish the 3 work sets, the last being an AMRAP, doing up to 3 heavier singles, then repeating the 3 works sets backwards and making the last set, which was the first set, another AMRAP.

For example...

65% x 5
75% x 5
85% x 5 +
90% x 1
90% x 1
90% x 1
85% x 5
75% x 5
65% x 5 +

Your #3 is a good option too.

Interesting. I like the look of this. May implement it in future.

**Obscure Terror** · 11-09-2012, 02:45 AM

I think Wendler will be covering this in "Beyond 5/3/1" pretty soon. I like option 1, which is basically the "back off set" option a little like Paul Carter does from Lift Run Bang. I'd combine option 1 and option 2 though, so up your training percentages to the slightly higher one, only do the minimum reps on the heaviest set, then do AMRAP on the last set of the lightest weight, like this:

5's Week:
75%x5
80%x5
85%x5
80%x5
75%xAMRAP

To me, this looks pretty brutal and I can't see you needing much extra work past the 4 main lifts.

I'm going to start the higher percentages as I feel the first two sets don't stress me enough then the final set is a big jump, but I'm doing the Simplest Strength template so I get my volume from the assistance. Have you tried Boring But Big?

**Obscure Terror** · 11-09-2012, 06:45 AM

Also I just checked my copy of second edition and the percentages for the 531 week are the same for both the higher and lower options - 75%x5, 85%x3, 95%x1.

toonie · 11-09-2012, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastNYgoon138

I finish the 3 work sets, the last being an AMRAP, doing up to 3 heavier singles, then repeating the 3 works sets backwards and making the last set, which was the first set, another AMRAP.

For example...

65% x 5
75% x 5
85% x 5 +
90% x 1
90% x 1
90% x 1
85% x 5
75% x 5
65% x 5 +

Your #3 is a good option too.

Interesting... And you do the same on the 3s and 5/3/1 week?

plugchop · 11-09-2012, 09:51 AM

If only Wendler had addressed this concern... I imagine something like multiple sets of relatively high rep work would help to address your problem with the limited volume of the 5/3/1 program.

I feel like this would be pretty boring, but I bet you'd get big if you tried it.

BossRoss · 11-09-2012, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plugchop

If only Wendler had addressed this concern... I imagine something like multiple sets of relatively high rep work would help to address your problem with the limited volume of the 5/3/1 program.

I feel like this would be pretty boring, but I bet you'd get big if you tried it.

I'm disappointed it took this long, thank you good sir.