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Old 03-07-2012, 03:12 AM   #11
Son of Jamin
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Originally Posted by TheMonsterKing View Post
Alcohol can be imbibed without intoxication. Marijuana cannot be imbibed without intoxication.

I support laws against the negative effects of alcohol. You know, like drunk driving, killing people while intoxicated, and other offenses. I even support such laws that would increase the penalties of people committing acts while intoxicated. Which, again, I think is actually the common position amongst most municipalities. I don't know of any federal laws to that end, though, aside from like pilots and what have you.

And yes, there is also cultural reasons. Alcohol is an inherent part of civilization going back to Sumeria.
Thanks for the reply and although I staunchly disagree with your position, I do respect that you are honest about it and argue for it.

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Old 03-07-2012, 03:23 AM   #12
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Decriminalizing small, personal amounts of marijuana is a wise move. Most municipalities across the nation already practice this.

It is, of course, ludicrous to not put drug dealers away. And marijuana ought to not be legalized due to the deleterious social effects that it produce. I have no problem with medically valid (stress on the valid) usages of it, however, though it must be treated like morphine and not medically prescribed candy.
I used to feel the same way you did about pot. But pot is in many ways less worse for you than alcohol. Pot's problem is, we associate other harder substances with it's use. People for hundreds of years smoked pot, and now it's illegal, for no real reason. The Japanese used to smoke a hemp like plant all the time. As rice was money, so only the rich could drink.

But anyhow. I think if done correctly, the full legalization of pot would be more of a boon, than burden. Be a legit source of jobs and taxes, like cigarettes.

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Old 03-07-2012, 04:23 AM   #13
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From the article...

"Think of California. California is spending more money on prisons than it spends on schools. There's something wrong about that equation." - Legit.

At least Pat gets part of it.

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Old 03-07-2012, 05:37 AM   #14
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Admittedly, this is because they have an incredibly high crime rate that is not at all simply based on marijuana possession.

I highly, highly doubt that pot smokers being busted amounts to most of the folks in prison in California.
The problem is definitely much much more than marijuana.

It has a lot to do with violent subcultures in our society and the flawed American ideal of law and order.

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Old 03-07-2012, 06:01 AM   #15
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and a prime example of why privatizing some things is a bad idea. more and more private companies are subsidezed to jail citizens. we have the prison lobby in washington promoting those mandatory minimums. jailing people is a F'ing business now. thats the "privatize everything" mentality run amock imo.

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Please...Corporations working together with government is NOT privatization nor capitalism. It's fascism.

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Old 03-07-2012, 06:33 AM   #16
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Society being destroyed by drug users and abusers...kinda does affect me.

Like: Tremendously so.

Come on Brackis.
Pretty sure you barely know anything about alcohol and weed.


Over 450.000 people died from alcohol last year, nobody has ever died from using marijuana (even the government agrees with that).

So it's kind of weird you say drug users and abusers destroy society, but alcohol gets a free pass because it's part of society.

Don't get me wrong, I don't promote drug use. I've never used any kind of drug, but marijuana is not dangerous and making drugs illegal doesn't solve the problem at all.

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Old 03-07-2012, 06:39 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by TheMonsterKing View Post
In what sense is it "less bad for you"? Alcohol has numerous health benefits and can be indulged in without intoxication in moderation. It is subject to abuses, but alcohol, taken in sufficiently minor quantities, is actually a net positive.

Could you provide some sources on the marijuana culture of Japan? I have never heard anything on this, and I have actually studied Japan rather extensively. (Yes, Pride DVDs do count as part of the study).

Also, if I am not mistaken, cloth hemp does not get one high. General, raw hemp, isn't especially useful for getting stoned on. This is one of the reasons that laws aganist hemp production for textiles is ridiculous. Specifically because the cross-pollination of hemp textiles (as well as wild hemp) would utterly ruin the big outdoor grow-ops, which would do precisely what I want as a marijuana prohibitionist.

I have never heard of widespread recreational usage of marijuana, actually, in any historical context outside of the West after the 1900's. I am sure that marijuana was well known for its medicinal purposes. It might have even been occasionally used in religious ceremonies (though this is not very well documented in most cultures). But recreational use? Sounds fishy to me.

We do not need the tax revenue so badly to warrant legalizing pot.
By less bad, I mean less detrimental side effects. Anyhow, even getting high really isn't that bad for you, even your brain. But, as for abuse, I feel that alcohol is worse for you in the long run.

Oh big time. Japan used to smoke it quite a bit. It was under MacArthur, and the US forcing our culture onto Japan, which is why they have some ridiculous drug laws here. Hempen culture in Japan | Cannabis Culture Magazine Marijuana medicine: a world tour of the healing and visionary powers of cannabis - Christian Rätsch, Christian Ratsch - Google Books
As a history nerd myself, Japanese history really hasn't been well translated into English, and most of it even in Japanese isn't widely available. I have been disappointed at how little the tour guides know about the places they are guides.

Yeah hemp, prolly won't get you high, but cannabis will.
The reason you won't hear about marijuana use pre WWI, is that the people who wrote most modern history books, did so after WWII. So of course they wouldn't include pot's widespread usage. It would ruin their careers.
BTW I have never smoked pot in my life. not once.

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Old 03-07-2012, 06:42 AM   #18
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The problem is definitely much much more than marijuana.

It has a lot to do with violent subcultures in our society and the flawed American ideal of law and order.
The US goes everything down the middle. We should either be nice and easy going like Europe. Or 'oh my god I'm sorry, please stop hitting' style of crack down. We are in the perfect middle, where we have the worst of both, the best of neither system.

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Old 03-07-2012, 06:52 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Son of Jamin View Post
Do you feel the same way about alcohol or do you give that harmful drug a free pass due to "cultural reasons"?
Alcohol has done far more damage to society than weed ever did. Its insulting to even group the two together for comparison.

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Old 03-07-2012, 07:01 AM   #20
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Prison is big business in the United States. The land of the free and home of the brave has more prisoners than any other country on earth and that is in terms of pure numbers as well as the most prisoners per capita. America LOVES to make tens of thousands of laws, in fact adding hundreds more per year because the 100,000 laws we already have isn't sufficient, so that we can lock up everyone is sight. Pat is just waking up to the reality that this is not about bad people doing bad things. Its business, and people need to wake up to it. Prison is business in America. We LOVE having massive amounts of people locked up. Moreso than anyone we like to label savages across the world. Even the dictators of the world don't lock up people like America does. Marijuana is a big part of being able to keep the prisoners coming so goodluck ever making it legal. California has tried and the Fed is on their ass constantly because they don't care about states rights when it comes to this sort of thing.

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