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Old 07-13-2010, 07:33 PM   #111
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The native people of the region were dark-skinned, but Jesus was the son of a deity which has fair skin....so many people believe that Jesus looked something like this:


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Old 07-13-2010, 07:33 PM   #112
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Then why would you be a Christian if you can't trust the texts which make up the bible?
I do trust the texts properly interpreted. I also believe most of what Christian tradition has valued as far as the credibility of the texts. AND, I have a lot of education and I've learned that the world of academia has every bit as much of an agenda as religious institutions, and is no more trustworthy. And the Biblical history goes back a lot further in human history then this so-called "scientific revolution" that so many put their BLIND FAITH in. But I have enough confidence in my religious beliefs that I try not to deny certain challenges in Biblical tradition. I think Biblical fundamentalists have a difficult road to walk if they are going to argue for a 100% literally interpreted accurate Bible.

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Old 07-13-2010, 07:39 PM   #113
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The middle eastern people of biblical times did not look olive skinned, or like for eg: bin ladin or sadam husein....they were black just like their neighbors the africans/egyptians....
Reffer to my OP to see how so and why
The middle eastern people of today became tan/olive, after european invasian
I have an interest in Egyptology and have read multiple sources about the race of the Ancient Egyptians. The most reliable information I could gather on the subject does indicate that the Ancient Egyptians were Black from atleast the pre-dynastic - New Kingdom period before several waves of invasions and subsequent immigration changed the phenotype of the majority of the populace (most Egyptians today are light-skinned resembling Southern Europeans and Southwest Asians).

However these claims of Jesus and the Israelites being Black (a popular claim among Black Hebrew Israelites) seem far less credible to me. They aren't based on any type of anthropological research or artwork but instead interpretations of scripture.

First of all if we look at the artwork from the Ancient Egyptians themselves they did depict Syro-Palestianians, the homeland of the Ancient Israelites, as being lighter than themselves as is evident in this image of Asiatic immigrants coming into Egypt.




Now regarding the examples you mentioned. The tale of Joseph really doesn't tell us anything about the skin color of the Hebrew. Neither does Moses, who was actually aware of his Hebrew identity according to scripture. Jesus's parents hiding him in Egypt doesn't really tell us anything either as there were Israelites in Egypt at the time.

The Revelations passage you mentioned isn't actually a physical description of Jesus as he lived on Earth. It is a description of the Ancient of Days, also known as God the Father in his Heavenly form and generally considered by Biblical scholars to be metaphorical.

There are very few passages in the Bible that mention skin color directly. One of them that stands out to me is this one:

Jeremiah 13:23 - Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

Ethiopian in Biblical literature referred to people of the Upper Nile Region. It's generally synonymous with Black African. If the Israelites had the same skin color as Black Africans why would they speak of an Ethiopian as if their skin color was different?

I believe the Israelites looked like tan-skinned Middle Eastern folk very much like the people we see in the Middle East today. The Egyptian paintings depict these people as Middle Eastern in appearance a couple centuries before Jesus's time and there were no massive settlements of Southwest Asia by Europeans in between this time period.

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Old 07-13-2010, 07:43 PM   #114
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Was Jesus blond-haired and blue-eyed? Of course not. Did he look like Djimon Hansou? More likely but most probably not. Jesus probably looked like this guy.


Jesus was an olive-skinned fella.

Those living in North Africa do not now (nor likely ever) looked like those of Sub-Saharan Africa. There are loads of hieroglyphics depicting the wars between copper-colored Egyptians and midnight-dark Ethiopians.

Read "Guns, Germs and Steel." Specifically Chapter 19.

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Old 07-13-2010, 07:52 PM   #115
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He had to be at least part black, I mean, look at the size of the schlong.



Jesus Mandingo seems more likely than Jesus of Nazareth.

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Old 07-13-2010, 07:53 PM   #116
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Josephus wrote "Wars of the Jews" and "Antiquities of the Jews" between 74-95 AD +/- a year or two. Wars first, Antiquities later. His writings include a reference to John the Baptist, another one about Jesus, and one about James, the brother of Jesus. The reference to James the brother of Jesus is about the events of 62 AD. When you read the passage about James it is clear that it is our Jesus. So Josephus knows about activity concerning James associated with Jesus (as does the Jewish Talmud from pre-70 AD.)

Josephus 93 AD ----James 62 AD ----Jesus 30AD

Imagine today if there is a book written by an author who was born in 1970 about Ted Kennedy's presidential campaign and John Kennedy's presidential campaign.

Writer 2010 ---------1980 Ted Kennedy ----------John Kennedy 1960.

Is our writer an eye-witness? No. Can he write an accurate book about Ted Kennedy from personal knowledge. Maybe. If he refers to Ted Kennedy as the brother of former President Kennedy and nothing else about John Kennedy should we believe that John Kennedy was president and existed? I think so. If he writes about John Kennedy in more detail should we believe that even though we know he was born (like Josephus) seven years after the events he describes? Yes. This all assumes that the writer is trustworthy. I've met people who in turn met American Civil War veterans in their youth. That's going back 145 years. How many WWII veterans do you know? Do you believe them when they speak about WWII? I've had clients who were born in the 1800's and fought in WWI, while their son, who I also knew, fought in WWII. That's 92 years and 65 years.

When the eternal flame was dedicated at Gettysburg by FDR in 1938 "many" participants in the battle were present. That's 75 years.

Quadratus, about 110 AD, said that people who Jesus had resurrected from the dead were still alive, as in living on Earth in 110 AD.

Virtually (because there is always 1 person who believes anything) no one doubts that Paul met with Peter and James and Paul learned about Jesus from them and wrote a minimum of 7 letters that contain the essentials of Christian understanding about Jesus.

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Old 07-13-2010, 07:55 PM   #117
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he had to be at least part black, i mean, look at the size of the schlong.



jesus mandingo seems more likely than jesus of nazareth.
lol!

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Old 07-13-2010, 07:58 PM   #118
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There are 2 parts to Josephus' writing on Jesus. One is doctored later by someone that calls Him the Christ, but the vast majority of scholars believe the mentioning of Jesus and the sect that followed him is from him.
That doesn't refute the argument of the page I posted.

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You also have to consider this...

1. The Jews affirm his existence.
Which Jews?


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2. If Jesus never existed, how do you explain the explosion of Christians claiming he was real? I mean, once one became a Christian, you suffered much loss and loss of life in many cases. Why would they do that for a myth?
The first Christians emerged years after his alleged death. Jesus's message was very attractive so they could easily believe in it without any empirical evidence that he existed.


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3. His disciples certainly claimed he lived. Do you really thing they would be willing to die for a lie? These guys were beaten, jailed and ultimately executed. All they had to do was say....."WHOA, WE WERE LYING, DON'T STICK THAT SWORD IN ME PLEASE...IM SORRY") You don't for a lie you know is a lie.
The only accounts we have for the lives of Jesus's disciples come from the scriptures themselves allegedly authored by those disciples. The existence of Jesus's disciples are as questionable as the existence of Jesus himself.

What is clear is that at some time during the 1st Century someone did write the books that came to be known as the New Testament but there are alot of arguments for these books and the stories within them being myths rather than real accounts of history. It's an interesting debate. I myself will read more into it when I have time but I've seen no compelling evidence that Jesus truly existed.

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PS.

The Sphinx nose wasn't african either.
According to the Arab writer Al-Marqizi the Sphinx's nose was chiseled off in the 1300s by a radical Sufi Monk who considered it to be sacrilegious for Egyptian citizens to conduct worship at its feet. He was hanged for vandalism.

The "Blackness" of the Sphinx attributed by some to the morphological characteristics of the face which appear to be Broad or "Negroid."

This has been confirmed by a forensic artist.


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Old 07-13-2010, 07:59 PM   #119
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Originally Posted by peytonlucy View Post
Good posts in6steps.

I feel that most of the attack on II Thessalonians, Colossians, Ephesians, I&II Timothy and Titus is because to admit Paul's authorship would totally gut the entire liberal critical scholarship (anti-Christian) approach. Most of what is taught in critical scholarship is forced by other internal considerations. A fundamental component of their position is to deny authorship of NT writings before 70 AD, whenever remotely possible. Since Paul died in the 60's, they are forced to hold that he didn't write the above letters. Sadly, most seminary students and even many of the professors teaching the material do not understand the nuances of the approach. That's why when you nicely ask them to cite evidence they always refer to "scholars" as if anyone's opinion is evidence.
Many of the attacks on the authorship of Paul are borderline comical. Most of them center around very slight changes in the style of the Greek. But they do not take into account age, experience, audience, etc. I've always wanted to do a study to see if some modern author would be criticized for being multiple authors if one were to keep the author anonymous and have language critics determine if there were multiple authors over time after evaluating a lifetime of writings. I would be curious to see how things turn out. I know that my personal writing style has changed considerably just from year to year.

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Old 07-13-2010, 08:05 PM   #120
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I do trust the texts properly interpreted. I also believe most of what Christian tradition has valued as far as the credibility of the texts. AND, I have a lot of education and I've learned that the world of academia has every bit as much of an agenda as religious institutions, and is no more trustworthy. And the Biblical history goes back a lot further in human history then this so-called "scientific revolution" that so many put their BLIND FAITH in. But I have enough confidence in my religious beliefs that I try not to deny certain challenges in Biblical tradition. I think Biblical fundamentalists have a difficult road to walk if they are going to argue for a 100% literally interpreted accurate Bible.
A reasonable man of faith. It sounds like many things I've written, except you wrote it better than I have.

"But I have enough confidence in my religious beliefs that I try not to deny certain challenges in Biblical tradition."

Most of the complex interesting things that I have learned have come from examining challenges. Where I find that the challenge is correct, I adopt it. If the challenge isn't correct but I can't produce a better alternative I leave the issue open. Most of the time I learn something new about something true in Christianity.

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