Lay and Pray/Prey?

Chronstantine · 03-10-2007, 12:02 PM

I hear people use both the terms "Lay and Pray" and "Lay and Prey" and it seems to me that there is a huge difference between them!

Here are the definitions I think make the most sense, please add your own thoughts

Lay and Pray:
Is when someone gets a takedown and does absolutely nothing with it except lie on top of the person and PRAY that they aren't stood up (usually because the guy on top is a worse striker)
ie) O'brien, koscheck, HAMILL

Lay and Prey:
Is when a bjj/submission guy is on top of you not punching but working to set up submissions, PREYING if you will, as opposed to the lay and prayer who doesn't really have a good chance at a submission or stoppage on the ground, the lay and preyer likes to pressure his opponent and wait for him to make a mistake and then apply a submission, of course when the submission defense of the guy on the bottom is good this could LOOK like a lay and pray to the average fan
ie) arona, filho

Thoughts?

CNDNFighter · 03-10-2007, 12:04 PM

nothing more i can say but defnitely agree. And matt hamill, the ultimate lay and prayer

Chaos Undivided · 03-10-2007, 12:05 PM

Arona goes into Lay´n´pray. But you´ve got the concept alright.

Lindland is the perfect example of Lay´n´prey. It often looks like he isnt doing much, so people dismiss him as a blanket. When in reality he finishes almost every fight. Actually he´s got one of the highest finish rates in the game when you look at the top dogs in MMA.

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EDIT: I´d also like to say that lying on your opponent and waiting for mistakes IS lay´n´pray aswell. To move up into "prey" you have to make those mistakes happen, you have to be very active with positioning and small shots and what not.

Disco Albino · 03-10-2007, 12:06 PM

"Lay and pray" was originally used to describe Gilbert Yvel holding on to Fujita from the bottom "praying" for a standup. But it's come to be applied to the guy on top more often (sometimes unfairly, as the guy on bottom can hold on and stall just as easily).

LampShade94 · 03-10-2007, 12:09 PM

i think most people mean to refer to "lay 'n pray" when they use it.

03-10-2007, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos Undivided

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EDIT: I´d also like to say that lying on your opponent and waiting for mistakes IS lay´n´pray aswell. To move up into "prey" you have to make those mistakes happen, you have to be very active with positioning and small shots and what not.

Nice distinction.

Chronstantine · 03-10-2007, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whyidie

Nice distinction.

Very true, regardless of the skill of a fighter, if he merely lies on top of someone and does nothing it is Lay and Pray, however standups are partly to blame for this, fighters know they can get stood up and try to hang on and get a standup when they are on the ground, if there were no standups then fighters would have to try things in order to escape and that would provide alot more opportunities for fighters like Arona, Filho to apply submissions, of course no one wants Royce v Ken 2 so a happy medium must be found.

Hawthorne · 03-10-2007, 01:43 PM

When people use "prey" they're just misspelling "pray".

Ravden · 03-10-2007, 01:59 PM

"lay" on someone and "pray" for the decision.

elzar · 03-10-2007, 05:33 PM

thanks for the lengthy post, but the difference between lay and pray and lay and prey is no more than a difference in spelling ability.

hawthorne made that point--missed it. ^^^^