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Old 06-03-2002, 05:55 AM   #51
Mr. Smith

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Quote:
Originally posted by The Jake

The Freemasons are a group in and by themselves who hide in plain sight. How the hell can you say it's not possible???

i meant this in relation to the illuminati and other major powers, if they really exist.


[/B][/QUOTE]I don't believe the door swings both ways in this argument.

Whoever is disseminating the information is in control. Books, newspapers, radio, television, Internet, all the information we absorb from all it's sources. We then interact with other people who also accumulate information from different sources. By being saturated by all this information and interacting with others in the same position we become conditioned to believe what we see and hear. We can't help it. It's natural.

Whoever is in a position to control the flow of that information shapes what we see and hear. People might gain an open eye to events around them and question the source of the information but the person who controls that will ultimately maintain power over the situation.

If Joe Bloe finds out the Illuminati are real who is he going to tell? Who is going to believe him? And if by some chance someone believe's Joe's story, what do you think is going to happen?? Joe's reality doesn't conform to consensus reality. Why? Because the person controlling the flow of information controls what is consensus and what is not. [/B][/QUOTE]

ok, i'm ready to cede you this argument.



[/B][/QUOTE]You obviously have far greater faith in humanity than I do... [/B][/QUOTE]

yes. yes, i do.

[/B][/QUOTE]Working on the big fat presumption that the Illuminati do exist I do not believe the pull all the strings. I don't believe any secret society does or could claim to. The problem with subversive movements is not that thtey could but they have enough power and influence to be able to SHAPE the course of history and our destiny, although not necessarily control it directly. The possibility of any one group could have such power and use it without consequence or without proper government is wrong.

That, in addition to the above quote, is a very, very big supposition... [/B][/QUOTE]

these are all major suppositions - we're talking about control over nations - all suppositions will be huge. i'm playing devil's advocate as much as you here, just throwing ideas around, not necessarily my own.

[/B][/QUOTE]Due to the inherent nature of a subversive movement, we do not know who the players are. Hence we have to assume that they do not have the best interests of everyone at heart - else why would they be subversive? (that in itself raises many points and is probably flawed but it is the strongest argument I can think of for why a group would wish to remain subversive). [/B][/QUOTE]

good point, and i generally agree, but i didn't mean that was their principal aim. what i meant was that the two could go together.

[/B][/QUOTE]I for one am not comfortable with anyone having that much power. Particularly when there they are invisible and have no (true) democratic process or accountability. [/B][/QUOTE]

i'm with you on that one!!

[/B][/QUOTE]I think we're confusing the issue here.

I see the motives of a secret society as being seperate to how they could remain over time. [/B][/QUOTE]

just diversifying the argument. plus, surely motivation dictates how any group exists, succeeds or is destroyed?

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Old 06-03-2002, 05:56 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Jake


You focker... I said I was bouncing around ideas in that other thread.... don't take me out of context!

At least under a dictatorship it's out in the open under public scrutiny. Big difference between that and a subversive movement dude.... ;)

- The Jake
yeah, sorry bout that one, i was just kidding around

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Old 06-03-2002, 06:08 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Smithmeister
just diversifying the argument. plus, surely motivation dictates how any group exists, succeeds or is destroyed?
Oooh.... good one.

Yes. In agreement here.... (I'll quit copying and pasting since you've conceded on just about all other points).

This is why public fronts and multiple layers within a conspiratorial group is almost mandatory. To sort out the wheat from the chaff so to speak. Find out who is real material for the inner layers and who is not. It's the best way (IMHO).

Not unlike how many intelligence agencies would recruit clandestine operatives I would imagine.... at a guess that is.

- The Jake

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Old 06-03-2002, 06:10 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Smithmeister


yeah, sorry bout that one, i was just kidding around
That's kewl. I know you were

- The Jake

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Old 06-03-2002, 06:56 AM   #55
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Ultimately, the spread of disinformation and the suppression of new technologys can be solely attributed to one group:

The Stone Cutters.

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Old 06-03-2002, 07:11 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Squatdog
Ultimately, the spread of disinformation and the suppression of new technologys can be solely attributed to one group:

The Stone Cutters.
WHO HOLDS BACK THE ELECTRIC CAR?
WHO MADE STEVE GUTTENBERG A STAR??

WE DO... WE DO....

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Old 06-03-2002, 07:30 AM   #57
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if anyone has an mp3 or something of that stonecutters song, i'd me most grateful

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Old 06-03-2002, 07:52 AM   #58
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Seemed relevant.....



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Old 06-03-2002, 09:18 AM   #59
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this is seriously focking with my head..ive heard about these secret societies and shit that have liike all these importnat ppl in there lie judges and shit so that they basiclly cant be touched and can do what ever they please. it fucking scares me an i always hear storys and shit from my mum about em and i tell ya it makes you fully anelize everything that happens around you.

i know i shouldnt have read this thread im not gunna be able to sleep tonight.

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Old 06-03-2002, 02:35 PM   #60
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LOL @ the cartoon!!

it's funny cos it's true (or is that just what they want us to believe?)

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