can we now admit that 265 is not the optimum combat weight for humans?

[32m]

Originally Posted by SharkBoy

i don't think so, big guys gas. like I said, they'll always pose difficulties, but they won't be able to be consistently as successful as smaller faster hw's.

Fedor, JDS, Cain, those guys are your top dogs in mma and the optimal size

The trend is proving the opposite in my opinion. The over 255 crowd is a recent phenomenon for good fighters. Of course there are still better fighters under that weight, because they are so many of them. However, look back 7 years ago. How many top 10 fighters were over 250? Not many. Today, Brock, Reem, Big foot, and Carwin are all over 250. Even Mir tipped the scales at 252 vs Cro Cop.

- UFC 119: MIR VS. CRO COP WEIGH-IN RESULTS | MMAWeekly.com

That's 50% of the top 10 heavyweights over 250. Was that true 7 years ago? NO!

Fact is...HW weight class is from 205 to 265. That's 60 pounds of range. Yet 50% of the top 10 fall into a 15 pound range (250-265). The other 50% of the fighters fall in the lighter 45 pound range (205-250). That ought to tell you something.

[SharkBoy]

Originally Posted by 32m

The trend is proving the opposite in my opinion. The over 255 crowd is a recent phenomenon for good fighters. Of course there are still better fighters under that weight, because they are so many of them. However, look back 7 years ago. How many top 10 fighters were over 250? Not many. Today, Brock, Reem, Big foot, and Carwin are all over 250. Even Mir tipped the scales at 252 vs Cro Cop.

- UFC 119: MIR VS. CRO COP WEIGH-IN RESULTS | MMAWeekly.com

That's 50% of the heavyweights over 250. Was that true 7 years ago? NO!

Fact is...HW weight class is from 205 to 265. That's 60 pounds of range. Yet 50% of the top 10 fall into a 15 pound range. The other 50% of the fighters fall in the lighter 45 pound range (205-250). That ought to tell you something.

nope. do you have actual stats on that?
and IMO, it doesn't matter, it could be a trend, but trends have been wrong before and I think they'll be wrong again.

Size is something that is difficult to overcome, so you might see moderate success with size. But optimal size, emphasis on the word optimal, is not IMO over 250.

Speed, agility and gas tank are also attributes of a fighter, something that is rare without some sort of substance if you are over 250. It's simple physics, bigger = more to move, more to move, more energy to expend.

Cain considered #1 right now, he's what, 240. Fedor, considered #1 since Nogueira, 230, before that NOgueira, roughly 240.

I don't count Brock as ever being #1

[Hellscream2k9]

If Griffin can make 205, so can half the HW's listed in this thread.

Heavyweight weights are fine in my opinion, We need at least one weight class where David can fight Goliath, where Roy Nelson can eat whoppers, where Brock Lesnars can be Brock Lesnars.

[32m]

Originally Posted by SharkBoy

nope. do you have actual stats on that?
and IMO, it doesn't matter, it could be a trend, but trends have been wrong before and I think they'll be wrong again.

Size is something that is difficult to overcome, so you might see moderate success with size. But optimal size, emphasis on the word optimal, is not IMO over 250.

Speed, agility and gas tank are also attributes of a fighter, something that is rare without some sort of substance if you are over 250. It's simple physics, bigger = more to move, more to move, more energy to expend.

Cain considered #1 right now, he's what, 240. Fedor, considered #1 since Nogueira, 230, before that NOgueira, roughly 240.

I don't count Brock as ever being #1

I just told you. Take the top 10 HWs and check their weight. 50% of them are over 250. The numbers don't lie.

[jasonjohnson**]

the Kind of POWER you get from being a HW


i think you get that power around 220 230

so anything past that slows you down


the best combination of power and Speed is about where FEDOR iS 220 230

[TheRainSong]

Hulking around at 265 is optimum for power and lack of a gas tank. Unless you blow them out in the first round, your chances will get thinner and thinner as the fight goes on.

LOL at the idiots that thought the new breed of 265+ behemoths like Brock and Carwin are gonna dominate. One guy turtles up and breakdances when he's hit, the other guy turns into a zombie after one round.

[PokerPro**]

The logic is flawed because once you get to around 265 plus, there are better opportunities for athletes to participate in other sports. The huge athletic guys who would be great fighters aren't in MMA.

[FightDoctor**]

I wish they would reduce the number of weight classes, so we could see more fights between fighters of different sizes.

160, 185, 185+

[32m]

Originally Posted by TheRainSong

Hulking around at 265 is optimum for power and lack of a gas tank. Unless you blow them out in the first round, your chances will get thinner and thinner as the fight goes on.

LOL at the idiots that thought the new breed of 265+ behemoths like Brock and Carwin are gonna dominate. One guy turtles up and breakdances when he's hit, the other guy turns into a zombie after one round.

The BIG HW is a new phenomenon. To use Lesnar with who STARTED MMA at the age of 29 is a bit biased. Alistair Overeem is a much better example to use, however, that is only ONE fighter of the "newbreed" that is BIG and has been fighting for awhile versus a crapload of smaller fighters. Give it time. I do not believe the 220-230 will prove to be the optimum weight in the next 10 years.

Also, I still think those guys did well considering how late they (Brock and Carwin) started MMA. I think if those guys started 10 years earlier, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[GoingTurbo]

my idea

Lightweight - up to 170
Middleweight - up to 200
Heavyweight - 200+