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Old 04-30-2008, 12:41 PM   #1
takeahnase
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Nutrition and the CNS

Does anyone have any advice on battling CNS fatigue/overtraining via nutritional means?

Every time I miss max attempts on squat/deadlift I am wrecked for at least two to three days, sometimes up to a week. Symptoms experienced during this period include
- depressed mood/lack of motivation,
- lack of appetite,
- difficulties falling asleep/tiredness in the mornings.

Are there any nutritional strategies one can apply to explicitly combat temporary CNS fatigue?

E.g. increase saturated fat or fish oil intake? Are there any stimulants (preferably natural) that address CNS fatigue? Aminos that tranquilize the CNS? Etc.

Obviously, I could research this myself, but maybe somebody has some hints. Thanks for the help.

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Old 04-30-2008, 12:49 PM   #2
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In my opinion, all you can really do is get a solid diet and make sure you're getting ample rest... same as with any overtraining conditions. Stimulants will probably burn you out even faster, though you may feel better temporarily. The CNS is a weird thing but time, rest, and good general nutrition is the only thing I know to aid in recovery of it.

Here's a thread that was posted a long time ago in S&P. The question is near identical to yours. Although, nothing was really cleared up as far as nutrition goes... ENTROPY's post on page 2 is still more than worth the read.

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f13/fo...15/index2.html

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Old 04-30-2008, 12:58 PM   #3
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Sherdog blows, I can't open the link.

Edit: Found the thread anyhow.

My general question would be whether nutritional strategies in an (temporarily) overtrained state are necessarily the same as under general conditions, or if there are methods to increase recovery that may not be optimal/feasible otherwise (e.g. it could be too expensive to drink 3l of fish oil every day, or 50% saturated fat intake may not be wise 365 days a year)


Last edited by takeahnase; 04-30-2008 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 04-30-2008, 01:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takeahnase View Post
Sherdog blows, I can't open the link.
It works for me... but here's a copy and paste of ENTROPY's post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENTROPY View Post
There is no specific supplement or training program for the CNS that I'm aware of. Rather, there are certain principles that have been tweaked over the years that have shown a degree of consistent positive results with regard to CNS increase and or for that matter, CNS decrease.

One observably positive method that was derived from Eastern European Olympic lifting templates is to train with maximal weights for low reps by performing sports specific exercises with approximately 50% of your single max using an almost ballistic execution of movement. This level of speed causes the brain to fire a maximal number of muscle fibers simultaneously thus stressing your CNS without overtraining. In powerlifing, it is commonly referred to as Dynamic Effort day, or speed day. In order for the DE day to stress your CNS maximally, you must apply 100 percent effort to the bar, ie: If you bench press 400 pounds and are training with 200 pounds then you must apply 400 pounds of force to the bar.

Your CNS adapts to the specific loads placed on it, however for recovery, and to avoid CNS burnout, never train max lifts on back to back days; therefore one should allow at least 72 hours between max lifting days. Rotate your max lifts every 1 to 3 weeks thus enabling you to adapt to a high work load without compromising the heavy weights required to increase you CNS tolerance.

To further increase your ability to lift higher weight percentages for longer periods, it is necessary to reduce the percentage you lift every 4 to 6 weeks for one or more weeks at a time, so as to allow a positive healing and adaptation period. For example, start over at week 1 at roughly 77% of your single max and progressively add weight each week until you’ve arrived at your max weight and then continue the process for the next 4 to 6 weeks.

Some principles that will allow you to increase your CNS efficiency without overtraining is to apply the following:

* Cycle your single rep max percentage every 4 to 6 weeks, where you begin at 70% and work your way up to your max and repeat 6 weeks later.

* Change the movements you perform along with the set/rep routine you employ every 4 to 6 weeks in order to avoid burnout and staleness.

* Never perform max lifts back to back, and allow at least two days between max lifts in order to allow your CNS sufficient time to recover.

* In order to avoid frying your CNS, perform only one type of special strength training movement per session, with the other movements being assistance movements.

* In order to increase CNS efficiency and response, perform at least two days a week of a speed movement (bench, squat) where you use literally 50% of your single rep max and perform 2 to 3 reps extremely fast for about 8 to 12 sets.

* Also, when doing speed work, use only one given weight in order that your CNS can properly accommodate the task that it’s asked to perform.

* Perform some kind of GPP movement at least once a week so as to allow for positive increases in your overall work capacity.

* Perform an odd lift type of movement that has a specific relevance to one of your max lifts. For example, for hams and quads you could perform variations of sled pulls, for deadlifts you could perform tire flips, or farmer walks, etc…

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Old 04-30-2008, 01:06 PM   #5
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Thanks. But doesn't this post address the prevention of overtraining via programming (it's essentially the WSBB template)?

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Old 04-30-2008, 01:14 PM   #6
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Also, there are several nootropics that aren't stimulates that may help you with mood and there are several supplements that you could use in the evening to help with sleeping. Getting a better night sleep could certainly help with CNS recovery. Nootropics probably won't help with recovery but at least it could help with your mood/depression symptom.

Here are a couple nootropic threads

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/re...ormula-382882/

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/co...ank-me-327142/

Here's a couple threads on sleep aids

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/insomnia-558615/

http://www.sherdog.net/forums/f15/sl...eaming-762863/

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Old 04-30-2008, 01:15 PM   #7
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Thanks man.

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Old 04-30-2008, 01:17 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by takeahnase View Post
Thanks. But doesn't this post address the prevention of overtraining via programming (it's essentially the WSBB template)?
It does, yes. And knowing you from S&P, I thought you’d probably already be familiar with that stuff. I was simply throwing it out there just in case you might be able to tweak your routine to help prevent the CNS fatigue. Eh, it will be a good read for someone.

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Old 04-30-2008, 02:50 PM   #9
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Germans have weak CNS's. That is the problem.

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Old 04-30-2008, 02:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by takeahnase View Post
Does anyone have any advice on battling CNS fatigue/overtraining via nutritional means?

Every time I miss max attempts on squat/deadlift I am wrecked for at least two to three days, sometimes up to a week. Symptoms experienced during this period include
- depressed mood/lack of motivation,
- lack of appetite,
- difficulties falling asleep/tiredness in the mornings.

Are there any nutritional strategies one can apply to explicitly combat temporary CNS fatigue?

E.g. increase saturated fat or fish oil intake? Are there any stimulants (preferably natural) that address CNS fatigue? Aminos that tranquilize the CNS? Etc.

Obviously, I could research this myself, but maybe somebody has some hints. Thanks for the help.
Monger linked some solid stuff.

What you're describing is classic overtraining, as you probably know. If it's temporary, and always after your max heavy compound lifts, I'd guess CNS burnout, also.

I'm going to assume your PWO and regular nutrition is spot on. Increasing overall fat intake wouldn't hurt in the least, though. And I'm going to assume you're taking in at least 3g of combined EPA/DHA. How many grams of carbs are you taking in PWO, and total daily?

What do your preWO stimulants look like? Type and dose?

Are you taking in ZMA? ZMA+Gaba is a great night time stack, and with GABA being an inhibitory neurotransmitter, it may very well help with an over-taxed CNS. Plus, it'll help you sleep. Monger has had some success with taking PS (Phosphatidyl Serine) at night to reduce cortisol---which goes bananas during overtraining. PS and PC (choline) are found in lecithin, which is why I recommended it in the post in the Pub.

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Last edited by MikeMartial; 04-30-2008 at 02:56 PM. Reason: spelling errors.
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