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Grappling Technique You don't know a heel hook from a toe hold, and that's why you need to come here.

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Old 12-11-2009, 09:55 PM   #11
Steelviper

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I'm just waiting for the "Got beat by a white belt" parody thread to pop up in 3... 2... 1...

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Old 12-11-2009, 10:03 PM   #12
InvertedBJJ

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Originally Posted by johnkreese View Post
I'd say that BJ was definitely at least at a blue belt skill level at that time. I think BJ's was able to exploit the Judo BB's weaknesses in his game. Hey, it happens. I'm sure the guy learned a lot from that competition.
Yeah he probably learned how much he hates himself for not knowing jits.

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Old 12-12-2009, 04:47 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by johnkreese View Post
I'd say that BJ was definitely at least at a blue belt skill level at that time. I think BJ's was able to exploit the Judo BB's weaknesses in his game. Hey, it happens. I'm sure the guy learned a lot from that competition.
I thought Bj was a brown in bjj in that video.

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Old 12-12-2009, 09:08 AM   #14
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I thought Bj was a brown in bjj in that video.
Idono, I was thinking blue, purple too.

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Old 12-12-2009, 09:24 AM   #15
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Without details of the circumstances, it's almost ridiculous to validate this sort of post. Were there multiple rolls? Did the black belt catch the white belt at all? Was the black belt working hard or taking it easy? Are you even competent to make that determination?

In a training setting, I think it's not that uncommon to see a white belt or blue belt submit a black belt, for the simple reason that the black belt doesn't want to rip through a low belt. If the black belt is shredding a beginner, it can make him look like a bully. This is one of the reasons that rank is important. Obviously, the judoka in your scenario is skilled and might be at blue belt level or higher. But if he were wearing a different belt, chances are the BB would have treated the encounter much differently.

We've had a number of Judoka train with us to improve their Newaza, several of them Olympic-class (this is at Renzo's in NYC). I've seen them get manhandled by BJJ black belts, but at points they've held their own as well. It wouldn't surprise me if a few got submissions from time to time, but it's not the norm.

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Old 12-12-2009, 10:37 AM   #16
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Without knowing the people involved, there's not much you can say about what happened (or even if it did happen ... nameless claims are always somewhat suspect, no disrespect intended). Unnamed people from style A are always beating unnamed experts from style B. This usually happens to unnamed people both ways. Unnamed judo black belts tap unnamed BJJ black belts, and unnamed judo black belts are tapped by BJJ white belts. The cool thing about them all being unnamed is that no one can verify or contradict it.

Most judo BB's wouldn't fare well at all on the ground with a BJJ BB, to put it mildly (though some could either stay on their feet or regain their feet instantly, much as is seen in MMA when BJJ'ers without good takedown skills discover that they've no way to get the fight to the ground).

But like anything there are exceptions. Gracie Magazine reported awhile back that Kenzo Nakamura and Roger Gracie rolled hard on the ground for 10 minutes without either tapping, though from what I've heard Roger would definitely have won on points if they were counting. If he can last 10 minutes against Roger going hard, presumably Nakamura would be a handful for your average BJJ BB.

Of course, Nakamura won Olympic gold in 96, and is a world class athlete, apparently using his athleticism to keep Roger from submitting him. Your average BJJ blackbelt (and there are over 5000 of them now) is going to find that level of athleticism fairly hard to deal with. Of course Nakamura would (and has in the past) go through most judo BB's very quickly as well, there's not much point for most judo BB's to look at Nakamura and say 'that proves I can hang with a BJJ blackbelt' ... guys like Nakamura are freaks, as anyone who's worked with them (judo or BJJ or wrestling or anything). Good examples to prove there are always exceptions, but not very useful for comparison otherwise.

Rhadi Ferguson (BJJ black belt and judo Olympian) has written that most Olympic level judoka are just BJJ blue to purple in ground skills, but would actually do pretty well against most BJJ black belts (though not the elite) on simple athleticism. People always discount just how much difference that can make - watching Sapp vs Big Nog's fight is a good reminder of a white belt with nothing but huge athleticism giving a black belt a rough time.

As well, you have the occasional freak like Penn tapping recreational judo black belts in documented (youtube anyway) videos - once again, most of us aren't Penn, and what he can do, like what Nakamura can do, has little to do with what we can expect from most of the population.

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Last edited by georgejjr; 12-12-2009 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 12-12-2009, 10:45 AM   #17
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"the BJJ bb showed up from god knows where (brazilian guy)"


You sure he was a BB ?

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Old 12-12-2009, 11:27 AM   #18
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it doesn't mean anything if it didn't happen in a tournament. for all you know the black belt let him get the submission, and was rolling extremely easy with him.

also let me guess the size difference. white belt is a lean 200+lbs and black belt was 130lbs

this thread is ridiculous.

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Old 12-12-2009, 11:57 AM   #19
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he was lighter than the BJJ BB but yes the white belt was much more athletic a freak of nature really.

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Old 12-12-2009, 12:11 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Mikey Triangles View Post
it doesn't mean anything if it didn't happen in a tournament. for all you know the black belt let him get the submission, and was rolling extremely easy with him.

also let me guess the size difference. white belt is a lean 200+lbs and black belt was 130lbs

this thread is ridiculous.
Yup, there should be a sticky thread for 'novice in style A beats expert in style B' ... its almost always ridiculous for the reasons you state.

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