Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums

Go Back   Sherdog Mixed Martial Arts Forums > Training Discussion > Grappling Technique

Grappling Technique You don't know a heel hook from a toe hold, and that's why you need to come here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-22-2013, 02:20 AM   #1
QnA

White Belt
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nevada
Posts: 90
vCash: 500
Sanda/Sanshou throws

Most Judo competitions don't allow a lot of Sanda trips/throws, as they are considered illegal. However, I do think (some) of them would fair well in MMA. Though, the leg grabbing does throw it off quite a bit, against someone lanky such as Jon Jones they seem effective in theory.

Anyway, take a look at some of these. Whenever I use Sanda throws in Judo (I took Sanda for a bit first before switching) my opponents usually get furious. Same if I break to the thumb every time this one guy grabs my forearms, which is all the time.


QnA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 10:37 AM   #2
Uchi Mata
Old School Player & New School Fool
 
Uchi Mata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 10,530
vCash: 500
That double leg he leads off with is pretty much exactly how GSP does it. A lot of those throws work better in MMA than pure grappling because they're punch counters/rely on a more upright stance. But they do work for sure.

__________________
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength - Eric Hoffer
Uchi Mata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 12:56 PM   #3
reddragon343

White Belt
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 59
vCash: 500
Dude...I'm not hating...but don't you think you should be concentrating on doing well...judo throws in a judo class? HAHA. But if ur doing it to diversify your MMA arsenal, eh, what do I know.

But the thumb breaking thing is kinda unnecessary I feel. Unless you are talking about cutting away from grips,not sure how i'm reading your post.

Sanda is cool-awesome btw.

__________________
TKD : It's more than just a slapstick Joke it has become...

Judo : Gentle Way my ass...
reddragon343 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 01:03 PM   #4
shunyata

Black Belt
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: The City of Angels
Posts: 6,654
vCash: 500
When you try to double leg people in Judo and they get mad it has nothing to do with Sanda and everything to do with double legs being banned in Judo.


You might as well say "all the dudes at that IBJJF focused BJJ school get really upset when I do reaping heel hooks as a white belt".

__________________
"Brazilian jiu jitsu is like karate point fight" - Gokor


What would Sakuraba do?
shunyata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 03:04 PM   #5
smart.feller
Beer Drinker
 
smart.feller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,424
vCash: 500
The difference between a double leg and a reaping heel hook is that the heel hook is a dangerous move with a small tapping window that could cause extreme injury and a double leg is a move that judoka have failed to address an adequate defense to.

Seriously, they put the "rules" into play to stop wrestlers from winning judo matches. Same thing with banning straight pulling guard because many judo black belts will get schooled by BJJ blue belts on the ground because it is entering newaza without attempting a throw.

I understand that judo is primarily about throws, but ground fighting is part of it, whether by submission or pin, and I can't understand the logic of banning moves that do not overly endanger safety just to save face for your art so it is not overtaken by more skilled opponents. At that point your art, or at least the legitimacy of the competition, has lost face.

__________________
I may never win the mundials, but I will never be afraid to step onto the mats.
smart.feller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 03:22 PM   #6
ChainFlow

Purple Belt
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by smart.feller View Post
The difference between a double leg and a reaping heel hook is that the heel hook is a dangerous move with a small tapping window that could cause extreme injury and a double leg is a move that judoka have failed to address an adequate defense to.

Seriously, they put the "rules" into play to stop wrestlers from winning judo matches. Same thing with banning straight pulling guard because many judo black belts will get schooled by BJJ blue belts on the ground because it is entering newaza without attempting a throw.

I understand that judo is primarily about throws, but ground fighting is part of it, whether by submission or pin, and I can't understand the logic of banning moves that do not overly endanger safety just to save face for your art so it is not overtaken by more skilled opponents. At that point your art, or at least the legitimacy of the competition, has lost face.
Sorry, but this is nonsense. There were no wrestlers or BJJ bbs tearing up judo circuits.

They banned them for aesthetic reasons. Just as silly in its own way, though.

ChainFlow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 03:36 PM   #7
QnA

White Belt
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nevada
Posts: 90
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by reddragon343 View Post
Dude...I'm not hating...but don't you think you should be concentrating on doing well...judo throws in a judo class? HAHA. But if ur doing it to diversify your MMA arsenal, eh, what do I know.

But the thumb breaking thing is kinda unnecessary I feel. Unless you are talking about cutting away from grips,not sure how i'm reading your post.

Sanda is cool-awesome btw.
Yeah, talking about cutting away from grips. It's a very basic concept he somehow can't get a hold of, you break towards the thumb to break the grip. Funny to watch him get pissed though.

I'm not really planning on doing any real MMA, it's just that sometimes I'll see the opening for a throw usually banned when in sparring, and go for it without realizing it until it's too late. More my problem than anything, and lately I've actually stopped.

QnA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 03:38 PM   #8
Uchi Mata
Old School Player & New School Fool
 
Uchi Mata's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 10,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChainFlow View Post
Sorry, but this is nonsense. There were no wrestlers or BJJ bbs tearing up judo circuits.

They banned them for aesthetic reasons. Just as silly in its own way, though.
Yeah, it had nothing to do with wrestlers. The countries that control the IJF and are really good at Judo are not countries where wrestling is even that big of a deal, and other than a few Mongolians no one was doing particularly well with a very leg attacking style.

What was happening was that people would get up a minor score or a penalty on their opponent and start spamming double legs or fireman's carries with no hope of getting a throw, just stalling. There was a gold medal final that followed this pattern at the Olympics, and there was so much outrage after that that they banned leg attacks, eventually banning them entirely even as counters. It was to preserve the aesthetics of Judo and promote going for big throws, much like many people want to eliminate positions like the 50/50 from BJJ because so much stalling takes place there.

However, it was a stupid thing to do because there are a lot of legit leg attacks that score full ippon when done right, and banning them is just hurting Judo as a combat sport by making it more specialized and unrealistic. They had rules against stalling and false attacks, all they needed to do was start calling those penalties and the problem would have been solved. One of the reasons I do very little Judo these days was this ridiculous rule change which restricts the game so much. As for groundwork, I think that was a spectator friendliness thing as well but is a much older rule.

__________________
Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength - Eric Hoffer
Uchi Mata is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 03:46 PM   #9
ChrmnMa0

Orange Belt
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 412
vCash: 500
If it was good enough for Kano, it is good enough for you

ChrmnMa0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-22-2013, 03:51 PM   #10
QnA

White Belt
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Nevada
Posts: 90
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uchi Mata View Post
That double leg he leads off with is pretty much exactly how GSP does it. A lot of those throws work better in MMA than pure grappling because they're punch counters/rely on a more upright stance. But they do work for sure.
I thought GSP was in to ball kicking.

QnA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


Latest Threads



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:15 AM.

Sherdog.com Forum Rules Clear Cookies Social Groups Lost Password
Contact Us - Sherdog Forums - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Top - AdChoices

Skin made by Alex. © iStyles.uni.cc Powered by vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
forums.sherdog.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.
monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"